PGR4: New Snow on the Ring trailer

[nAo]

Good luck on your future projects nAo, and don't let the hype mongering fansites get you down. If they do, do what I do: Take a vacation. See, you were fine until I came back and raised your blood pressure 40 points. I post some videos and BAM!

Ahaha, it's all your fault! Thanks for the kind words anyway

 

[aselto]

Was is really though? I thought it only became an issue when that little detail became publicly exposed. Did people even notice before that?

It was public knowledge before the game was out.

 

[joker454]

It was public knowledge before the game was out.

Ah ok, well that was their downfall then. If they kept that factoid secret, then nobody would have even noticed. I still find people today that think PGR3 looks really good. I wonder if their views would be shattered if I told them it's actually rendered at a lower rez

 

[ihamoitc2005]

480P

joker,

that same psychological effect is behind the 1080p push even though a 720p game with all the bells n' whistles likely be a better presentation over all.

Then same we can say for 480P no? For some gaming types, higher resolution is very important. For other, like FFXIII, HS, Gears of War, Kameo, I prefer they make 480P and have crazy effects because draw-distance is not important. For shooter (wide open like Halo type) and racing, it is good to have draw-distance and extra details of 1080P.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Render cost

Can you do motion blur using the edram? E.g. write and blend several cached frames to it, and then write the results back to GDDR3?

But then you have to render too many frames (how many extra for 1 final frame) and have very small tiles for only 10MB EDRAM, no? This is massive cost I feel.

 

[AlNom]

Ah ok, well that was their downfall then. If they kept that factoid secret, then nobody would have even noticed.

They did try! Blim exposed them with his review copy and his framebuffer grabs.

 

[Phil]

Very impressed. In fact, it seems BC are focusing on parts that I think Polyphony should have long ago (maybe they will / already have, but haven't showed it yet): Realtime weather effects, wind etc. Thanks to that, I can look over the fact that the cars are less detailed because with all that rain / wind effects going on, it isn't noticable anyway.

This is the next best thing I've seen since the night-wet-track in GT3.

I still can't forgive it being a 30fps though and no amount of motion blur is going to change that.

 

[Rys]

Just saw this link:

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/News-64875.aspx

Looks like someone out there is clearly monitoring this forum, guess I gotta watch what I say around here

They could have at least given the thread a link so readers had the context, for crying out loud. Cheeky sods.

 

[djskribbles]

Very impressed. In fact, it seems BC are focusing on parts that I think Polyphony should have long ago (maybe they will / already have, but haven't showed it yet): Realtime weather effects, wind etc. Thanks to that, I can look over the fact that the cars are less detailed because with all that rain / wind effects going on, it isn't noticable anyway.

This is the next best thing I've seen since the night-wet-track in GT3.

I still can't forgive it being a 30fps though and no amount of motion blur is going to change that.

iirc, they said GT5 will have dynamic weather.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Was is really though? I thought it only became an issue when that little detail became publicly exposed. Did people even notice before that?

Well, it sure had a lot of quite obvious aliasing, though it may be there in 720p as well...

 

[Dr. Nick]

They did try! Blim exposed them with his review copy and his framebuffer grabs.

People would have found out anyway and probably would be using the methods they are using in the Halo 3 thread to find out. And if people couldn't figure it out...

Well, it sure had a lot of quite obvious aliasing, though it may be there in 720p as well...

This would have still been a problem. People right now think that the resolution is the main reason for this problem.

Very impressed. In fact, it seems BC are focusing on parts that I think Polyphony should have long ago (maybe they will / already have, but haven't showed it yet

I know when I play PGR3 that my focus is almost entirely on the car and the road. I barely even look at the envorinments or any thing else. I think that is what the majority of gamers focus on and is part of the reason why people think GT5 looks better. One thing bothers me about the rain is that there doesn't seem to be any splashes as the rain makes contact with the ground. It's looks kind of weird to me.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

One thing bothers me about the rain is that there doesn't seem to be any splashes as the rain makes contact with the ground. It's looks kind of weird to me.

Also the water spree from the tires is very weak and thus looks bad, but other than that it looks great.

 

[Capeta]

BC is bringing back weather effects that were already in the original Dreamcast MSR.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

This would have still been a problem. People right now think that the resolution is the main reason for this problem.

The problem is that there are several scaling steps there; first the X360 scales the framebuffer up to 720p or 1080i, then the typical LCD TV scales it down/up to 1366*768. These two steps tend to amplify aliasing artifacts...

 

[Arwin]

But then you have to render too many frames (how many extra for 1 final frame) and have very small tiles for only 10MB EDRAM, no? This is massive cost I feel.

I was thinking you could render 'ahead'. So you render a bunch of frames, but you don't show them until you have a few overlays. So you render your frame, but don't display it. Then you blend in the next frame, but don't display it. Then you blend it with your invisible display buffer, and copy your visible display buffer back to the EDRAM, which you then use for the next blend and so on. Could this work? (I'm a programmer, but when it comes to graphics I only know some rudimentary basics)

 

[nAo]

Could this work? (I'm a programmer, but when it comes to graphics I only know some rudimentary basics)

You would get a motion trail with that, not motion blur.

 

[kyetech]

Heres my guess, which I have thought for a while.

I think the motion blur works by rendering the car (or whtever object) once, then you would be left with your 2d image of the car ( in the buffer) then given its vector direction and velocity, in screen space relative to the camera, make duplicates of the car (ie the image in the buffer) along that vector, and scale the duplicate according to the perspective change. ie ( as it goes in to the distance, or towards the camera scale up or down.

Then blend those dplicates together, as though they were seperate intra-frame renders, then composite back in to scene with respect to per pixel z indexing.

What do you think about that?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's what I was thinking, but the moblur is applied to all objects it seems, not just cars. So you'd have to render ever object separately, blur, and composite.

An interesting point is the blur appears to have two, or at least two, images involved. From the St. Peter's Rain vid at 49 seconds as the camera pans left, the crowd heads distinctly divide into two images. At 50seconds in, the orange car has a distinct secondary ghosted image at the rear. At 52 seconds I'm seeing about 4 repetitions of the highlight on the blue car's wheels.

Perhaps there's a degree of rendering in multiple positions and blurring together? Could you also decrease the graphical complexity relative to blur, dividing workload across multiple time samples? That would still need compositing though.

Does this PGR4 technique technique share similarities with LBP? That has excellent moblur too, and that seems to be achieved with multiple timeslices.

 

[nAo]

I analyzed the video at certain frames and you can often observe perfect gradients that extends for hundreds of pixels.

 

[Jawed]

Combine this with Xenos's built-in tessellator?:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=38857

As far as I can tell it would work by just generating extra triangles on the GPU during the 1/30th of a second that the frame lasts. How many triangles, I dunno.

Jawed