I know that the speculation is semi-forbidden in this forum but I must try it:
http://rapidshare.de/files/7752838/Presentation1.mov.html
What do you think?
http://rapidshare.de/files/7752838/Presentation1.mov.html
What do you think?
Personal Revolution hardware vision.
- Thread starter Urian
- Start date
Interesting but here is my especulation basead in release data(what I expect), and easy of use/cut costs so more devs can use it and their controller and balacing with the power for 480p.
-65nm for all
-Custom 970MP (512 Kb per core) at ~2Ghz (Gekko instruntions included), with the same "tricks" in cache as Gekko and like Xenon
-Ver moddified X1600 without avivo (cut down in raw/peak power, like less pixelpipes;plus fliper instructions;custom HW for their software proposses and better realworld performace (100M polys with complex shaders like UE3)), ~5 Mgs of 1t-Sram-Q to the buffer (on die), 600Mghz (for low power) /
(edit) in a second thought if they had a good background in unified shaders that they can use in Rev and are relatively easy to devolop it could also have great possibilitys of hapearing in the Rev taking in account the die/power/long term costs/efficience-realworld performance savings/benefficts that would fit perfectly in the console design philosophy of Nintendo, but I still think it dependson the amount of R&D they already had to do it (/edit)
- 384-512MB (depending on price, I am not sure if 512 it is viable at 65nm) of 1T-Sram-Q, 128bit bus
-a third processor for the heavy stuff like physics, animation, sound, de/compression, voice/image(?) recongnizion (EyEToy like) (to sum things up, heavy maths) made by ATI OR multiple VMX units per core (at least 2, but more should be hard in terms of heat, die size, and cache), specialized for that kind of work, whatever have a better balance cost-power-heat
All made to put low power , low cost on games, at a competitive power, in the rest I pretty much agree expect the 1G of flash memory as they have said 512.
-65nm for all
-Custom 970MP (512 Kb per core) at ~2Ghz (Gekko instruntions included), with the same "tricks" in cache as Gekko and like Xenon
-Ver moddified X1600 without avivo (cut down in raw/peak power, like less pixelpipes;plus fliper instructions;custom HW for their software proposses and better realworld performace (100M polys with complex shaders like UE3)), ~5 Mgs of 1t-Sram-Q to the buffer (on die), 600Mghz (for low power) /
(edit) in a second thought if they had a good background in unified shaders that they can use in Rev and are relatively easy to devolop it could also have great possibilitys of hapearing in the Rev taking in account the die/power/long term costs/efficience-realworld performance savings/benefficts that would fit perfectly in the console design philosophy of Nintendo, but I still think it dependson the amount of R&D they already had to do it (/edit)
- 384-512MB (depending on price, I am not sure if 512 it is viable at 65nm) of 1T-Sram-Q, 128bit bus
-a third processor for the heavy stuff like physics, animation, sound, de/compression, voice/image(?) recongnizion (EyEToy like) (to sum things up, heavy maths) made by ATI OR multiple VMX units per core (at least 2, but more should be hard in terms of heat, die size, and cache), specialized for that kind of work, whatever have a better balance cost-power-heat
All made to put low power , low cost on games, at a competitive power, in the rest I pretty much agree expect the 1G of flash memory as they have said 512.
Last edited by a moderator:
two things:
- embedded Gekko? - hardly. Broadway's ISA will either be a superset of Gekko or latter will be sw emulated.
- totally unified memory architecture? - so now that MS are openly admitting how stupid they were last gen with the full UMA and openly embrasing GCN's mem architecture in their x360, Ninty, on their turn, would suddenly feel the urge to go and shoot themselves in the forehed by pulling an MS from last-gen? *stands stupefied*
The GameMaster
Newcomer
My current observations...
Considering the fact that they want to maintain low cost of hardware and to achieve backward compatibility (new hardware means old hardware has to be emulated OR include the original processor(s) with the new hardware, in either case Nintendo won't do either.) as well as maintaining an similar development enviroment from their current console (which is noted as something they want to do) and in consideration of the SIZE of the system that they are currently planning on making (physical size wise)...
I believe that they may do one of two things...
They will reuse the EXISTING GameCube hardware, refabricate it to current standards so it will be more cost effective than the previous GameCube hardware and leave the clock speeds and memory the same OR they will increase the clock speed and amount of memory to a degree. In either case I see Nintendo reusing their current hardware...
That is just my opinion though... who knows what Nintendo is actually doing these days, I don't even think Nintendo knows what they are doing at times.
Considering the fact that they want to maintain low cost of hardware and to achieve backward compatibility (new hardware means old hardware has to be emulated OR include the original processor(s) with the new hardware, in either case Nintendo won't do either.) as well as maintaining an similar development enviroment from their current console (which is noted as something they want to do) and in consideration of the SIZE of the system that they are currently planning on making (physical size wise)...
I believe that they may do one of two things...
They will reuse the EXISTING GameCube hardware, refabricate it to current standards so it will be more cost effective than the previous GameCube hardware and leave the clock speeds and memory the same OR they will increase the clock speed and amount of memory to a degree. In either case I see Nintendo reusing their current hardware...
That is just my opinion though... who knows what Nintendo is actually doing these days, I don't even think Nintendo knows what they are doing at times.
The GameMaster said:
Yeah, just look at those horrible DS hw & software sales ww. (esp. in JPN) The most ridiculous & ignorant thread I've ever read on these forums since Deadmeat was here, with the exception that he attempted to use logic. Reuse? I guess contracting out ATi & IBM for Holywood & Broadway was all an elaborate ruse? If you're still around I'll be force-feeding you crow come May with delight.
Yes, you are right.
Can be a better solution a modified VMX with support for the Gekko SIMD Instructions?
The architecture of the speculated system is the same of GCN but with 512MB off-chip RAM and 8MB on-chip RAM.
The ATI X1300 has 4 pipes and is 100 milion transistors GPU but at the same time the ATI X1600 is a 12 pipes and is a 160 milion transistors GPU. I don´t see any problem for a 8 pipes custom version (2x4 configuration) based on the ATI X1x00 series.
The key for my speculation is this:
http://www.necel.com/process/en/90nm.html
If you read you it you can see why I choosed the ATI RV515 in the speculation.
I don't know why I expect Revolution to be not "that far" being the XBox360. (ie not a NGC on steroïd, though you could say XBox360 is just that after all, it has PowerPC CPU & ATI made GPU with embedded memory...)
CPU: something like dual core PowerPC architecture, each core having 2 hardware threads, with some good L2 cache, and @2GHz bare minimum.
GPU: something like R520, between Xenos and RX1600 level, would be cool if it had "smart memory" doing antialiasing like Xenos, but it's really more a wish than an expectation. Surely it will have embedded RAM just like Flipper had, how much I wonder.
RAM: 512MB unknown type, maybe UMA.
It's gonna be fun to see how wrong I am when the Revolution specs will be released
CPU: something like dual core PowerPC architecture, each core having 2 hardware threads, with some good L2 cache, and @2GHz bare minimum.
GPU: something like R520, between Xenos and RX1600 level, would be cool if it had "smart memory" doing antialiasing like Xenos, but it's really more a wish than an expectation. Surely it will have embedded RAM just like Flipper had, how much I wonder.
RAM: 512MB unknown type, maybe UMA.
It's gonna be fun to see how wrong I am when the Revolution specs will be released
My guess
Broadway: IBM might offer multi Gekko on a chip (2-4 for 90nm, 4-8 on 65nm) with 1-2 MB L2 @ 0.5-1.0 GHz
Hollywood: ATI might offer something similar to Xenon perhaps using what they learned from Xenon project, except it will be optimised for 480p instead of 720p with 4xAA and single die either on 90nm or 65nm from the get go. Or like I said before, Nintendo might just want to reuse their Flipper design just with better fixed T&L and setup, more pipes, more embedded 1T-SRAM to support 480p and faster clock to boot perhaps 200-400 MHz.
Memory: Mosys 1T-SRAM again for the main memory probably 512 MB and offer 20+GB/s bandwidth. Since I hate long loading time, I think they should stick that slow A-Ram in Revolution too, since it seems to help with loading time with Gamecube.
Broadway: IBM might offer multi Gekko on a chip (2-4 for 90nm, 4-8 on 65nm) with 1-2 MB L2 @ 0.5-1.0 GHz
Hollywood: ATI might offer something similar to Xenon perhaps using what they learned from Xenon project, except it will be optimised for 480p instead of 720p with 4xAA and single die either on 90nm or 65nm from the get go. Or like I said before, Nintendo might just want to reuse their Flipper design just with better fixed T&L and setup, more pipes, more embedded 1T-SRAM to support 480p and faster clock to boot perhaps 200-400 MHz.
Memory: Mosys 1T-SRAM again for the main memory probably 512 MB and offer 20+GB/s bandwidth. Since I hate long loading time, I think they should stick that slow A-Ram in Revolution too, since it seems to help with loading time with Gamecube.
Why put multiple Gekkos if we can put (less but) much more capable core than probably even a multi Gekko would offer for current games (which are more floating point intensive). Also I doubt they can use the same architeture than XB, althought they have been in R&D for the PC so I dont think that a unified one is out of possibility.
I also hate long loading times, that is one of the reason why I like so much of GC.
I also hate long loading times, that is one of the reason why I like so much of GC.
pc999 said:
Multi Gekkos would be cheaper and consumes less power, compare to 970MP or Xenos or Cell. Performance will be less too but should be good enough.
Obviously Hollywood base on 970MP @ 2GHz is a better solution for performance but also more expensive and consumes more power.
SynapticSignal
Banned
My guess:
cpu: powerpc with 1 PPE
this make it cheap and well know to devs (cell has 1 ppe, x360 has 3 ppe, so this is a well known core)
gpu RN520 -> something near x1600pro or X1300pro @ 65nm
384 MB of ram
512MB of flash mem
no external psu
little and with no heat problems
cpu: powerpc with 1 PPE
this make it cheap and well know to devs (cell has 1 ppe, x360 has 3 ppe, so this is a well known core)
gpu RN520 -> something near x1600pro or X1300pro @ 65nm
384 MB of ram
512MB of flash mem
no external psu
little and with no heat problems