PC Monitors for HD gaming

[Oninotsume]

Hi,

I realize that this post may in fact be in the wrong place, but because I'm interested in finding out what PC monitors might be good for gaming and gaming alone, I thought I would ask here.

I've recently been checking out a lot of HDTV information, seeing as how I will want one before purchasing and XB360 or PS3, however, I've decided that I will wait for SED technology to arise, as it seems to hold the most promise.

Of course my gaming can't wait the 1 or 2 years until this time, so I was wondering if some people here might be able to lend some advice on what type of PC monitor I should look for to support my HD gaming habit in the meantime.

I'm not too familiar with the subject, but the gist of what I am thinking is as follows:

1. A monitor prices around $250-300 range.
2. CRT is better than LCD?
3. What types of inputs should I look for on the monitor?
4. What type of resolution should I look for, and how do I check this?
5. Will purchasing a PC monitor instantly allow me a maximum 1080P gaming experience, or will I need to purchase something more?
6. What types, price, size, resolution are people here using? And what brands do you suggest?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

 

[London Geezer]

Hi,

I realize that this post may in fact be in the wrong place, but because I'm interested in finding out what PC monitors might be good for gaming and gaming alone, I thought I would ask here.

I've recently been checking out a lot of HDTV information, seeing as how I will want one before purchasing and XB360 or PS3, however, I've decided that I will wait for SED technology to arise, as it seems to hold the most promise.

Of course my gaming can't wait the 1 or 2 years until this time, so I was wondering if some people here might be able to lend some advice on what type of PC monitor I should look for to support my HD gaming habit in the meantime.

I'm not too familiar with the subject, but the gist of what I am thinking is as follows:

1. A monitor prices around $250-300 range.
2. CRT is better than LCD?
3. What types of inputs should I look for on the monitor?
4. What type of resolution should I look for, and how do I check this?
5. Will purchasing a PC monitor instantly allow me a maximum 1080P gaming experience, or will I need to purchase something more?
6. What types, price, size, resolution are people here using? And what brands do you suggest?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

I think this thread should be moved to the Hardware forums or the HTPC & PC Video Forums, not only because it belongs there, but because you will probably find more help there from people who usually stay well clear of the Console forum

 

[Corwin_B]

I'm playing with my 360 on my 22" CRT, using the VGA cable, and it's generally pretty cool. A couple of tidbits and caveats, though :
1) Even large PC screens generally don't come close to most TV sizes, which means that a similar experience can only be had by being closer to the screen, in which case the noise from the console can be a little irritating (think of watching a DVD on your (noisy) computer)
2) Many PC monitors are 4:3 (letterbox is the word I think ?), not widescreen. Depending on the game, you can get rendering at 4:3, rendering at 16:9 (black bands), or 16:9 stretched to 4:3 (looks mighty ugly on PGR3 for example). On the 360, going from 1280x960 down to 1024x768 for the dashboard generally fixes the problem

Regarding your specific points :
1. A monitor prices around $250-300 range.

Depends. Mine certainly costed me more.

2. CRT is better than LCD?

Using a LCD at a resolution different from its native resolution generally results in a fugly looking picture. LCDs have advantages as far as size (and power use, IIRC) are concerned.

3. What types of inputs should I look for on the monitor?

VGA input. An HDMI input on a monitor could be used for a PS3, I suppose.

4. What type of resolution should I look for, and how do I check this?

All monitors have their maximum resolution specified. Be very, very wary of LCDs and their native resolution (as mentioned earlier).

5. Will purchasing a PC monitor instantly allow me a maximum 1080P gaming experience, or will I need to purchase something more?

Depends on the resolution supported by the monitor you buy. You will need a large (and expensive) monitor to reach the equivalent of 1080p.

6. What types, price, size, resolution are people here using? And what brands do you suggest?

I'm using a IIyama 22" CRT.

 

[sonyps35]

Dude, I strongly recommend going with LCD. While the picture qaulity may not be as good, it's just so much cooler.

After getting used to a LCD, a bulky CRT feels like the stone age to me...and you really want to feel high tech with your new hi tech console right?

 

[kyleb]

Screw waiting for SED to get a new TV, my primary destop is a 42" plasma.

Seriously though, I do keep a 17" Trinitron hooked as a sceondary display on the entertainment center and I use 21" Trinitron with my other PC as well. I perfer aprature CRTs for various reasons, actually Dimontrons over Trinitrons but they are both quality and I got some good deals on my displays so I wound up with the latter.

If you do go for an LCD then make sure to find one with a good scaler so you don't get the fugly looking picture with non-native resolutions that Corwin_B. Also, especially with your price range, getting " the maximum 1080P gaming experience" should probably be the last thing on your list as there is a whole lot more to image quality than resolution and anything over 1280x720 is pretty much pointless on any 360 game and surely quite a few PS3 games as well.

Oh and as for hookups, VGA will do you fine for 360, but the for the PS3 I haven't heard anything about that being an option so you'll likely need a DVI-d input or a component-to-VGA transcoder. Straight up component inputs would of couse make things simple, but I doubt you'll find that anywhere close to your price range.

 

[Oninotsume]

thanks for the advice

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Yes, I kind of conceeded to the point of not aiming for a 1080P ready monitor, as the size and price range seem way out of my range.

I'm still going to hold out for SED Hell, I live in the same prefecture where they are making them, so maybe I can sneak an early buy

Thanks again, everyone's advice will surely help in deciding which monitor to purchase.

 

[pakotlar]

Dude, I strongly recommend going with LCD. While the picture qaulity may not be as good, it's just so much cooler.

After getting used to a LCD, a bulky CRT feels like the stone age to me...and you really want to feel high tech with your new hi tech console right?

I'm a heavy proponent of CRT tech in general, but if you can find a good LCD in the price range you are looking at, then go for it. However, one caveat: If you can find a FW900 CRT for 200-300 dollars, GO FOR IT. I have one and it is amazing. Cost me $225. Amazing picture, and while I don't use an Xbox360 with it, there is a thread on HardOCP where you can find pictures of such a setup. Unless you mind a wider border around the periphery of your image, for high motion this CRT cannot be beat. Also its color reproduction and brightness levels are top notch. I use 1920*1200 very comfortably, and the BNC connection is very noise free. It has two inputs on the back, one 5-cable BNC (3 color 2 lumina) and one VGA output. I use BNC-VGA for the computer, so that the VGA is free for X360/PS3 when I get those. It is a monitor that used to be very popular with graphics artists for color accuracy and geometry accuracy. Has a ton of color settings, as well as full control of gamma,color balance. Brightness is generally lower than top notch LCD's, but contrast is rediculous. Good luck!

The coolness factor should be taken into account though. If image quality is your prime concern however, I would go with the GDM-FW900 unless you are looking for a monitor larger than 24". The size is big enough for me however. The monitor is 16:10 widescreen just to let you know.

One last thing: I bought the HD version of a documentary about sea life (forgot the name, you can get a demo on Microsoft's HD center) and at 720p it blew me away.

 

[Tagrineth]

Real gamers play on 6" hand held battery powered black and white sets. 8)

 

[Huh?]

I realise this is a relatively old topic and I appologize for bumping it. I just wanted to throw my 2cents in as a recently bought a new pc monitor to replace my failing one.

1. A monitor prices around $250-300 range.

Depends, my Refurbished Sun Microsystems GDM 5410 was only $150 shipped.

Here are the specs:
20" Diagonal Viewing Area
Digital Multiscan® Technology
0.24mm Aperture grille pitch
HiDensityâ„¢ Electron Gun
1880 x 1400 @ 85Hz. Resolution
1x 13W3 connector for RGsB(will accept VGA with adapter)
1x HD15 for VGA
3x Color modes
Too many calibration options to list.
Front panel switch to go between Input1 and Input2
Each input remembers your calibration settings seperately.

2. CRT is better than LCD?

When properly calibrated, for the money, I would have to say yes, CRT's are better than LCD's. My monitor is proof of that. However, if money is no object then you could always get one of those $2000 LCD's used by eye doctors.

3. What types of inputs should I look for on the monitor?

Tough question actually, I searched forever to find something that had two inputs and accepted RGsB (Sync On Green). The reason is there are still a few good PS2 titles left, and if Sony uses the same connector for PS3, atleast for the core version, I'd be willing to bet RGsB will be an output option just like it was on PS2 and PS1. The 13W3 RGsB connector will not directly connect to a console with RGsB or VGA but many adapters are available. You could always get some type of transcoder and a switch box too.

*You can actually buy a Breakout cable with BNC connectors, then pick up 3 BNC to RCA adapters and connect the PS2, and probably PS3, right up to it with component cables. Just be sure and set it for RGB in the systems menu. Oh and 480i games won't work for any console without the right hardware*

4. What type of resolution should I look for, and how do I check this?

10801/p is 1920 x 1080 but I'm actually not sure what the monitor reads it at from a console. I'd bet most 360/PS3 games will simply upscale to 1080p so I wouldn't worry too much about it. 720p/1080i would be my main concern.

5. Will purchasing a PC monitor instantly allow me a maximum 1080P gaming experience, or will I need to purchase something more?

Depends on the monitor and the console, so I really can't say, but 1080i/720p should be no problem at all for most monitors.

6. What types, price, size, resolution are people here using?

Sony Trinitron/Sun Microsystems GDM5410 21" Superflat CRT.
*This is a Sony Trinitron monitor made for SGI and SUN, mainly for CAD/CAM engineers*
Refurbished Grade A (although there are 2 teeny tiny almost invisible specs on it)
Paid $150 shipped to my door.

And what brands do you suggest?

If you want the most bang for your buck get a Refurbished monitor made by Sony WITH Trinitron tubes, the ones without Trinitron tubes are no better than any other monitor. I'm sure there are a few other brands that look great as well, but my Trinitron sure does look purty. But, if you would rather have something new, with a warranty, then I'm not really sure what to tell you. I will say don't buy used, refurbs are ok if the source is reputable or if they are factory refurbs. The reason is that tubes and electronic parts do not last forever and something used could give problems early on. LCD's might be different though, I'm not sure as I don't have much experience with them.

The only caveats to CRT's are...

(Sony's Only) You will have 1 or two very faint tiny lines running across the screen, this is the Trinitron tubes at work. They won't go away but are hardly noticeable at all.

You MUST calibrate any CRT to get a good picture. A CRT needs lots of love and attention the first few days or weeks, but once you get them calibrated properly the image quality is out of this world. GT4 almost looks like a next generation game on this monitor and I'm not exaggerating at all.

CRT's are also big and heavy.

You will need to purchase some kind of calibration DVD and learn how to calibrate your monitor. It isn't hard, just a little time consuming.

 

[Huh?]

I'm a heavy proponent of CRT tech in general, but if you can find a good LCD in the price range you are looking at, then go for it. However, one caveat: If you can find a FW900 CRT for 200-300 dollars, GO FOR IT. I have one and it is amazing. Cost me $225. Amazing picture, and while I don't use an Xbox360 with it, there is a thread on HardOCP where you can find pictures of such a setup. Unless you mind a wider border around the periphery of your image, for high motion this CRT cannot be beat. Also its color reproduction and brightness levels are top notch. I use 1920*1200 very comfortably, and the BNC connection is very noise free. It has two inputs on the back, one 5-cable BNC (3 color 2 lumina) and one VGA output. I use BNC-VGA for the computer, so that the VGA is free for X360/PS3 when I get those. It is a monitor that used to be very popular with graphics artists for color accuracy and geometry accuracy. Has a ton of color settings, as well as full control of gamma,color balance. Brightness is generally lower than top notch LCD's, but contrast is rediculous. Good luck!

The coolness factor should be taken into account though. If image quality is your prime concern however, I would go with the GDM-FW900 unless you are looking for a monitor larger than 24". The size is big enough for me however. The monitor is 16:10 widescreen just to let you know.

One last thing: I bought the HD version of a documentary about sea life (forgot the name, you can get a demo on Microsoft's HD center) and at 720p it blew me away.

You have monitor I wanted, but couldn't afford at the time.
It's a Sony Trinitron too, by the way.

 

[pakotlar]

You have monitor I wanted, but couldn't afford at the time.
It's a Sony Trinitron too, by the way.

Apparently there is anothe seller of ebay for these (200 + 100 or so shipping). I would highly, highly, recommend it. Yep, it is a trinitron, and has 2 faint horizontal line running through it, one just below middle, and the other at about 80% of the way up. You may notice them if you look for them during gameplay, but they are extremely faint, and I don't notice them unless I look. Also I actually kind of like them for some reason, but that may be just me. The quality of this monitor is also heads and shoulders above the XBR960 (34" Sony Trinitron) which is generaly considered the best HDTV 34" and under, which I had for a while. 1920*1200 looks amazing, text is very sharp, and no headaches (85-99hz at this res). I use the BNC connection, and have VGA free for xbox or ps3. Good luck!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

(85-99hz at this res). I use the BNC connection, and have VGA free for xbox or ps3. Good luck!

Here's a question. How does frequency affect vertical lock? If you have a 60 fps game locked to the refresh, and the refresh is 85 Hz, won't there be issues with sync, and doubled frames etc.? For 30 fps you'd just grab the next frame, so it likely won't be too bad, but at 60 Hz, well, the very second frame of display would be delayed by almost an 80th of a second, or about half a frame. And then everything would just be out of sync. Do consoles decouple render speed and game speed from framerate similarly to PC games? That doesn't appear to be the case as 50Hz games run slower than 60 Hz games.

 

[Shogmaster]

1. A monitor prices around $250-300 range.

Many CRTs and LCDs fit this range.

2. CRT is better than LCD?

Hell yes. Whenever I play GRAW on anything but my CRT with VGA cables, my score tanks. Dark maps are hell for anything but a CRT.

3. What types of inputs should I look for on the monitor?

For X360, a simple DB15 VGA input. For PS3, who the hell knows right now. Hopefully Sony will provide a VGA cable kit like MS.

4. What type of resolution should I look for, and how do I check this?

For CRTs, Minimum of 1280x1024 @ 80Hz (Most decent CRTs should pull this off fine). For LCDs, I'd aim for 1280x720 to minimize scaling, but there are only handful of desktop LCDs with this resolution now.

5. Will purchasing a PC monitor instantly allow me a maximum 1080P gaming experience, or will I need to purchase something more?

You won't have to worry about 1080p gaming for consoles for another 5 years.

6. What types, price, size, resolution are people here using? And what brands do you suggest?

I'm using my 5 year old Sony G400 19" Aperture Grille CRT with dual inputs. I usually have my X360 dash set to 1280x1024, but when I play PGR3, I set the dash to 1024x768 so that the game won't scale through the video out chip.

Someone else here suggested a Sony FW900 16:10 24" CRT and I'd wholeheartedly agree if you can find one for $300 or so. It is the most impressive display one can use for gaming.

 

[Guden Oden]

If you have a 60 fps game locked to the refresh, and the refresh is 85 Hz, won't there be issues with sync, and doubled frames etc.?

If the game console's video output runs at 60FPS, that is the rate the screen will sync to. There's no way to have a conventional monitor draw screen updates at say 85Hz with video input running at 60Hz, particulary not a CRT. In that particular case the electron beam literally follows the progress of the video signal row for row down the screen in real time, and if they didn't follow each other, then what would the beam draw? It'd have no information to put up on the screen because it hasn't arrived yet...

To decouple this process you'd need a buffer memory of some sort inbetween the two, such as 100Hz (PAL) TVs use, but those merely double the output frequency, they can't run asynchronously to the input framerate.

Do consoles decouple render speed and game speed from framerate similarly to PC games? That doesn't appear to be the case as 50Hz games run slower than 60 Hz games.

Few, if any games, use the vertical blank for timing purposes. Not even most N64 games did that a decade ago; Mario64 was one of the few that ran slower and letterboxed. The Star Wars launch title whatsitscalled, ran full-frame, full-speed on 50Hz PAL N64s.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Right. So an 85 Hz CRT isn't going to work so well on consoles as it'll be dropped down to 60 Hz (or 50 in PALdom).

 

[Shogmaster]

Right. So an 85 Hz CRT isn't going to work so well on consoles as it'll be dropped down to 60 Hz (or 50 in PALdom).

Sure, but if you want to use that monitor for computer use as well, you want that 85Hz ability (since it's gonna take up room on the desk anyways).

 

[ban25]

Last weekend, Best Buy was selling the 42" 1080p Westinghouse panel for $1500, the 37" version was only $1100. Right now the prices are $2000 and $1500, still extremely good. These are real 1920x1080p panels and have excellent quality. I expect that this weekend they will go on sale again.

 

[pascal]

I had a Sony 15" Trinitron at home and a 19" Trinitron at work for almost 8 (eight years). Then you can call me a Trinitron adicted.

I changed for a 17" Sony X-Black performance LCD and I am happy.
- The space saving is great.
- Black levels/colour (TN panel) are acceptable for most applications.
- The brightness is great (X-Brite).
- The image is sharp/perfect with DVI/LCD.
- The crystal clear dark polarized filter panel is fully back noise free.

But this is my personal opinion.

 

[Fox5]

However, if money is no object then you could always get one of those $2000 LCD's used by eye doctors.

Don't do it, those have horrible refresh rates.

Any, CRT may or may not have the best image quality, but the things are freaking heavy, hot, take up a lot of desk space, have inferior geometry and text generally isn't as sharp, require lots of calibration (versus the practically calibrationless DVI) to look their best, and have to deal with the horrors of low refresh rates.

That said, if you wanna go big and cheap, you could always pick up a Monivision/Princeton CRT monitor which go up to 34" in size I believe. They have poor build quality though and tend to die within a few years.

Of course, LCDs will be more expensive than a CRT of comparable size and quality, but I wouldn't go with anything but for PC use now. For gaming though, assuming I'll be playing with a controller and not right up on the screen, a CRT could be good, but I wouldn't go with those puny 20" to 24" ones.

Few, if any games, use the vertical blank for timing purposes. Not even most N64 games did that a decade ago; Mario64 was one of the few that ran slower and letterboxed. The Star Wars launch title whatsitscalled, ran full-frame, full-speed on 50Hz PAL N64s.

Metroid Prime was only available as a PAL 60 release, so maybe it was timed to the framerate. It'd be a bad idea for games with unstable framerates to tie things to the framerate though, but I think even PC games from the mid to late 90s have been guilty of it.

 

[Guden Oden]

Right. So an 85 Hz CRT isn't going to work so well on consoles as it'll be dropped down to 60 Hz (or 50 in PALdom).

Well, there's actually nothing technical that would interfere; there's not really any such thing as a "85Hz CRT"... Possibly there could be some issue with screen flicker on CRT monitors, but this is really only an issue on sharp, bright, high-contrast graphics in my own experience, think black text on white background, such as in your typical windows environment. Stuff you have to focus hard on while reading and such. I gamed for quite a while on a CRT running in 60Hz on my old PC, I could never detect any screen flicker in a 3D environment. Of course, some people might be extra sensitive so the usual YMMV disclaimer applies of course. I'll just say I found 60Hz on a CRT in windows disturbing, but games were fine.

Also, when in progressive scan mode, I'd pretty much expect software to output at 60Hz anyway even in PAL territories, at least on next-gen consoles. This due to VGA monitor cords being standard, and stuff. And many monitors won't sync below 60Hz.