Parhelia experience

OK Boys,

It's been one full day since I unwrapped the Parhelia, and slapped it in my system. I'm actually _very_ interested in finding anybody else out there that has actually used this board.

So, let me first start out how I came to buy this card. First of all, the GF4 that I was using was just ridiculous for running my 2nd LCD display. There were all kinds of visual crap on the display...you just had to see it kinda thing.

OK, so all of a sudden, multi-head was important. If the 9700 would have been available in my area, I would have bought onel. With that said, a few things interested me in the Parhelia.

1. Dual/Triple-head: I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and knew they had this feature nailed down to a science.

2. 2D Quality: Come on, this is Matrox, right?

3. Surround Gaming: The more I looked at this, the more intrigued I became.

Of course, I wished the Parhelia were a faster part. But, looking @ Surround Gaming, I saw something there that _really_ had the potential to change everything.

OK, so I bought one from Newegg, since I also could find NO/ZERO/NADA Matrox products in my city, much less Parhelias. Let me just toss a few things here (in no particular order)...

1. 2D Quality: To say that Matrox understands what 2D quality is all about is like saying the Rams, the last few years, have had an OK offense. In short, the 2D quality is utterly stunning. I mean, it just blows away everything else. I've got ATI stuff here, nVidia (obviously), etc. There's just no comparison.

2. 2D Quality: Did I mention it was good? I'm sitting here right now with 3 monitors: 2 20" TFT's, and 1 CRT. You would not believe (hell, I can't believe) what an amazing difference Parhelia has made on this CRT.

3. Driver Interface: Others should, IMHO, look @ Matrox's implementation. In short, I love their approach. They don't even bother tacking onto the standard display panel. The graphics are very nice, and they're very easy to use (particularly with multi-head).

4. Surround Gaming: OK, here's my dump on this baby. I've got it running, and I've played 4 games with S.G...Quake3, Flight Simulator 2002, Unreal Tournament, and Duke Nukem MP. With that said, S.G. IS the real deal as far as I'm concerned. I could probably go on and on talking up this feature...But as far as I'm concerned, this feature ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY changes the way you game...just as I thought it would prior to getting the board.

Let me put this into perspective. Think about T&L (nVidia) and Truform (ATI). Go up and down each, and consider all the great things each has brought to the table. How many games actually came out that harnessed the capability of the hardware? More importantly, how many of these features REALLY made you take a step back and go, "Man...wow, what a difference. I just enabled/disabled that feature, and I'm just totally blown away."

Matrox, in just a few months, have more games supporting Surround Gaming than any of these other features did @ this point post-release...and the list is growing. I just spotted a post @ the MURC by their Dev. Relations guy, and they're going to make some more announcements this week concerning S.G. Take a look @ the following URL:

http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/surrgame.cfm

Anyhow, Matrox is onto something here, and I think ATI/nVidia should really think about this feature. It's not difficult to implement, and it completely/radically changes the experience.

5. IQ. Quite frankly, I don't even know how to best put this into words. I mean, to say "it rocks" doesn't really do it justice.

Let me put it this way...Playing Quake3, a game I've fired up a million times before, took on a different form (excluding S.G. for a moment). It's really hard to explain, but this thing just renders the damn thing in such a way that blows anything else out of the water. Again, you would have to sit there and play with actual games to notice certain things. Textures are significantly more vibrant than anything used previously.

6. FAA: There have been some well documented instances in which FAA doesn't work...but let me say it this way. Has anybody seen what FAA @ a low resolution looks like? IE compare FAA at, say, 800x600 to anything else. This Antialiasing mode is amazingly good.

--------------------------------

OK, I'll try to keep it short. I've come across a few bugs along the way, as can be expected from a brand new architecture. However, I've not come across any bug that has flat out brought the system down, etc.

There are things that I hope this next driver release, slated for this week, will address...some of them are small, others are larger (better A.F. support).

In any event, the Parhelia is an amazing product. Does it compete head-to-head, performance wise, with the likes of a 9700/NV30? No. But, I can pretty much guarantee that it brings features to the table that will more radically enhance your gaming experience.

This is the thing that dissapointed me most, with respect to the reviews on the net. They trashed the crap out of the thing, only because it wasn't the fastest chip in rendering 3DMark2001 and/or Code Creatures, etc. What you basically never saw from any of these reviews (except 1 or 2) was a complete joke when looking @ the strengths of this card.

I realize that Surround Gaming is something of a niche feature, given the fact that you have to make an investment in 3 monitors...But if you're in a position to make that kind of investment, then this feature is obviously very tangible.

Overall, I will just conclude this post by saying that the Parhelia is an outstanding product, and has completely won me over.
 
eek6.gif


Its has gotta be a full moon...
 
I'd be much more interested in the Parhelia if it supported true triple head, ie Independant Resolutions rather than stretched desktop(where it treats all 3 monitors as one, so anything full screen stretches accross all three). In my opinion this lacking feature makes surround gaming useless in a desktop enviroment.
 
Thanks, Typedef.
I really appreciate your 'mini' review.

Do you find that it plays games fast enough for you?
 
Typedef Enum said:
OK Boys,

Anyhow, Matrox is onto something here, and I think ATI/nVidia should really think about this feature. It's not difficult to implement, and it completely/radically changes the experience.

The market for high-end video cards is small enough as it is, and chances are it's likely to only become smaller as consoles continue to grow in power and steal more of the PC gaming market. To advocate a feature where the benefit is only realized with 3 displays on one desk is, IMO, absolute lunacy.

I'm not doubting it's a very nice feature to see in person, and probably does change the gaming experience for the better. What I am doubting is the application of such a feature to the consumer market. Frankly I was surprised to see this feature get as much press as it did. It's certainly nice for developers and designers, but the cost and desk space involved to have it work as a gaming solution is ridiculously prohibitive, not to mention the extra rendering resources you need to power it. I can't believe ATI or Nvidia would devote serious engineering talent to duplicate this aspect of the card, there are so many more areas where I'd rather see time and money spent in a gaming-oriented card. Work it into a Pro solution sure, but I believe if you're trying to sell it to your average (or even hardcore) gamer, the response would usually be bewliderment or laughter. It has as much chance of becoming a mainstream solution as a $5,000 flight sim chair.

Nice quick review though, despite my misgivings about Triplehead as a worthwhile feature.
 
Bah, in a few years display prices will have dropped to the point that the front of a cereal box will be a 14 inch LCD. You'll just cut'em out and line 'em up on the desk. Then you'll wish you had that Parhelia.
 
Buts not just S.G. is it, its qulaity clear dual head 2D as well, which is som important to a larger segment than just gamers.
 
Typedef_Enum

Will you be writing a full review for the Matrox Parhelia - perhaps on NVNEWS?

I personally would be very interested in reading it. And in your mini review you mentioned you compared IQ in Quake III with other cards, like the NVIDIA GF4 Ti series and some ATI cards too... can you tell me specifically what ATI card you are comparing to for my own frame of reference (I assume it is the Radeon 8500)?
 
To advocate a feature where the benefit is only realized with 3 displays on one desk is, IMO, absolute lunacy.

I've got 6 monitors on my desk (well 4 actually with 2 at the bottom for foot rest), but no Paherlia :(

But I reckon more high end card should have this kind of feature.
 
I'm @ work now, but just realized how crappy my English was in that last post. I only got like 3.5 hours sleep, as I was obviously playing with the board into the wee hours of the night.

I've given some thought about doing something "review-ish"...But I also would like to stay more focused on the gaming side (surround gaming, to be more precise).

The thing that keeps popping in my head is T&L...I keep thinking about the old discussions right here on this forum.

Do you guys recall the threads on (what was it called again?) MK3/M3K/Bioware (the game with the professor, the dog, and the...err...other character?).

Anyhow, we would look @ screenshots before/after T&L was enabled, to detect the differences...

The same thing with that other crappy DX8 game....What was it? (man, I'm tired). It was the featured DX8 game when the GF3 was launched, and soon became a freebie with many OEM's. It had the "GF3" specific optimizations in place, and you would have to REALLY look to even detect the differences.

Anyhow, when I think about this card, I think about those discussions...and then I think about the current state of Surround Gaming, and can honestly say that this feature goes MUCH further in enhancing the gaming experience AND it has also gotten the attention of developers.
 
Typedef Enum said:
The same thing with that other crappy DX8 game....What was it? (man, I'm tired). It was the featured DX8 game when the GF3 was launched, and soon became a freebie with many OEM's. It had the "GF3" specific optimizations in place, and you would have to REALLY look to even detect the differences.

Even tho i wasnt around at the time, i believe the game you speak of is Giants.
 
Types 2 games:

MDK2 is the first game - Rev posted shots of TnL enabled which showed better lighting. (Of course thi sone also spouted heated arguements about how to bench it, as if you left TnL ticked on on a V5 it ran slower than with it ticked off ;) ).

Giants was indeed the second one - its actually a great game and played well enough on my V5 even without TnL and the DOT3 it first sported and then the PS enhanced version that was bundeled with ELSA Gf3's.
 
Type,

from me, too, a big thank you for your quicky review. I am still considering a Parhelia for my home system (I might just about add another screen or two ;) ), hence some real-life experience from somebody who is considered to be--no offence meant--hardcore pro-NV comes in very handy. Most people on MURC and others I know with Parhelias appear to be somewhat biased.

I would appreciate a full review, too. I am especially interested to learn how you gauge the actual games performance with this card. Not framerates per se, but, well, playability.

ta,
-Sascha.rb
 
No! Giants was a kool game (though the save-game thing was totally f'ing stupid)...

It was indeed Dronez. That was such a horrible game man...I mean, REAL bad.

MDK was a funny game indeed...But those threads, IMHO, basically left you with the feeling that, "OK...I see virtually no difference." Certainly, you wouldn't notice it if you were just playing the game and/or you setup a test in which you made the switch and asked people to describe the differences.

I'm here to tell you guys this...If you're here on Beyond3D, you're more than likely into this scene. If so, then it comes down to having the desktop space and the cash to fork out for 3 displays.

I'm here to tell you that when I first heard about Surround Gaming, I instantly thought, "Oh no! Not another head casting!" I thought it sounded way too cheezy and impractical.

But if you just toss that aside for a minute, I have no doubts at all that _if_ you were to drop by my place, sit and play with it for a couple of minutes, you would be hooked on it...No doubt about it. It's really that kool.

And this is what concerns me the most. Out of all those stupid reviews, how many were just stuck on the fact that the card didn't beat a Ti4600 across all benchmarks? Ummm...how about all of them? Actually, the Tech-Report was fair in jusdging the card, but all the rest can pretty much be flushed down the toilet, IMHO.

How many of these guys put any value into things like 2D Quality? If you read enough of these reviews, you will basically come away with, "We're @ a stage where there's basically very little difference between ABC and DEF..." Yeah, OK...

Take any guy who has used ATI/nVidia products for the last couple of years...then slap them in a chair, focusing on a display coming from a Parhelia...and then tell me the guy doesn't go, "Wow...man, that's amazing."

What about DVD quality? I didn't have a chance to check it out, but I think I already know the answer...

What about TV-Out? Man, I tried TV-Out on a GeForce4 about 4 weeks ago, and I couldn't believe how totally crappy it was. I mean, it was just a worthless feature. Anybody like to place a wager as to how good/bad the TV-Out quality will be on the Parhelia?

When I couldn't find a 9700 in my area, I just started to think...I mean, if I had one, what would I do with the power (and yes, same goes for NV30...). Until a game like Doom III is released, it's all massive overkill IMHO.

In other words...how much better are my games going to be if:

A. 1600x1200 + A.F. + Antialiasing
B. The ability to add peripheral vision to a great many titles that I own right _now_!

This is no disrespect to either 9700/NV30 (when released), but it just doesn't buy me anything right now...Once Doom III is released, then there's an argument to be made.
 
3 displays are only practical with LCDs so that raises the price a bit more. I don't even want to think about having 3 19 inch CRTs on my desk, let alone 3 21 inch or above. You'd need a whole auditorium just to hold your computer desk, and it'd be like having a huge space heater right in front of your face.

Anyway, I'm interested in knowing about your experiences of gaming on LCDs has been? Are there any lag problems, as some seem to claim? And what LCDs do you have?
 
I'm using this card since July with my two 21" P110 + one 21" Radius. (I've reported a lot of problems to Matrox since July.)

Just for the records: SGaming IS a very good idea, sure - just been released too early: I tried several game (AA, JKII, UT2k3, etc) and with more than 3 players on the screen it's almost unplayable. (10+ fps at 2400x600, 16xFAA)
 
Nagorak said:
3 displays are only practical with LCDs so that raises the price a bit more. I don't even want to think about having 3 19 inch CRTs on my desk, let alone 3 21 inch or above. You'd need a whole auditorium just to hold your computer desk, and it'd be like having a huge space heater right in front of your face.

Anyway, I'm interested in knowing about your experiences of gaming on LCDs has been? Are there any lag problems, as some seem to claim? And what LCDs do you have?

Wrong. I have a good desk, normal big, not 'auditorium-size' but: there is three 21" CRT plus spekaer satellites plus keyb, mice and a few hundred CD. :D

As far as I experienced, LCD is simply too slow for action games. (19" Compaq, 15" IBM, 15" Samsung)
 
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