Oh boy... what have I done... Samsung HPT5054

[kyleb]

DNIe dynamicly exaggerates the colors and contrast, much like Vivid mode on my Panasonic. Best I can tell they do it mostly for the wow factor under florescent store lighting where it can arguably be helpful, but it certainly isn't true to the source and many people including myself find it hideous under normal viewing conditions. Once it is off you should be able to properly calabrate black level on the display.And yeah, sharpness is llikely fine where you have it. I just wasn't sure as different manfucatures lable the sharpness values on different scales.

As for HDMI, 1080p would give you a sharper picture in the few games that do render at something above 1280x720, but otherwise component at 720p will likely look just as good.

And old film is super high fidelity, when everything is handled well the effective resolution is far beyond that of the 1080p transfer we get. For instance, I just watched some of Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo on HD Movie Net the other day and it looked just as and sharp and crystal clear as even the most recent high budget productions.

 

[AlNom]

mm... particularly with all the hoopla with internal rendering resolution this generation, I figure HDMI won't be important until the next.

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, I just run my 360 at 720p over component to my plasma even though it it will accept 1080p though both component and VGA. I've tried both and saw no notable difference between settings, so I went back to 720p for convenience sake as my receiver is a few years old and hence doesn't support component switching at 1080p.

 

[Pete]

You've probably reduced brightness and contrast already, judging from your brightness and contrast settings, but 'Dynamic' mode sounds like an exaggerated store setting (like DNIe). I'd switch to 'Movie' mode, if it's available, as a more natural setting (and probably better for your TV's longevity).

I'm just used to TVs switching to 'Custom' once you start fiddling with brightness and such, so I'm not sure why yours is still listed as 'Dynamic.'

 

[AlNom]

Yea, my receiver and audio system are pretty old too (10 years ). I don't know think I'll replace them anytime soon.

Listening to the DTS track on one of the Star Trek movies had me convinced that it was good enough with the right source material.

However, regarding DTS vs. DD, I find that the DTS tracks used in some of the Star Trek DVDs "seem richer" than the DD5.1 tracks, and the same for the Gladiator DVD. I don't know if it's really because of a higher bit rate, but at the same volume setting on the receiver, the DTS track just feels more alive.

 

[kyleb]

Good point Pete, I overlooked him being on dynamic mode. Yeah, standard or theater or something labeled like that would likely be a better place to start. And some TVs do let you adjust the preset modes instead of allowing custom, if you are going to be watching DVDs though component on then it's best to calibrate a separate mode for that as the 360's 480p output is notably brighter than it's HD outputs. And the same goes for BC as the emulator has the same brightness issue as well.

And yeah Al, when done right DTS can sound notably better than DD.

 

[AlNom]

hm... yea, it was on dynamic by default, but I switched it to standard. All the default modes had contrast set to 70+ and brightness >45. I've lowered the contrast to around 50.

Here's another thing -> When I switch between movie and standard, it also switches the colour temperature and brightness/contrast etc. When I set everything to the same and then switch between movie and standard mode, the standard mode has slightly richer colours when I'm watching digi TV (SD).

 

[AlNom]

gaaah.... two dead pixels. Sometimes, I hate it when I inspect things a little too closely. According to Samsung's policy, I would need at least 5 dead pixels to qualify for service under warranty. (1 or 2 pixels per 400K).

Of course, in normal use, I wouldn't be able to see the two offending pixels, but I just hate knowing they're there. At least they're not bright green like the one dead pixel on my 20" LCD monitor.

So far so good, otherwise. I may have to hold off extensive gaming in Mass Effect and GH3... Both ghost easily. Halo 3 seems to be alright. I guess a good thing is that I can use one of the skulls to turn off the radar, and the occasional zoom with the binoculars will change up the hud every now and then.

Paranoid as I am, I'm even recording the usage of the TV to at least 1000 hours.

When I'm watching digi cable, I zoom in so the entire image is filled. And a nice feature is the ability to shift the picture up or down from there. The upshot is that I can move the screen to hide larger TV-station logos, and given how shows are filmed, it's actually not a bad idea to shift the image down (to focus more on the top majority i.e. heads).

 

[kyleb]

Hum, are you sure that dead pixel policy applies to plasmas? Dead and stuck pixels are inherent to the design of an LCD, but it is a manufacturing flaws that cause plasmas to have them on rare occasion. Really weird that it is just a couple individual pixels too, when pixels do go out on a plasma it is usually a whole line of them. Regardless, you might want to look into having the store do a swap.

Also, what do you mean by "ghost easily"? If you are playing the game and switching to an unused input and seeing an impression; that is only residual charge. Unlike IR, charging will disappear on it's own whether you use the display or not, it can last a while but has nothing to do with image retention and unlike IR is no cause for consern at all. Also, while you'll probably never get even a hint of IR from the Halo 3's translucent HUD, changing what is displayed by zooming in with the binoculars for occasional moments doesn't change much as it is the accumulated difference in fading that cases image retention.

And again, there is no reason to be paranoid about IR as even if you tried you couldn't cause personate damage to the display. It took me using my plasma as my primary monitor for months before even that caused a problem, and even then it only happened because I wasn't mixing it up with as much gaming and movies as I generally do. Actually, I recommend you do absolutely nothing to be cautious against IR, and while it will still be unlikely that you ever see any, I'll happily walk you though the means to correcting it and then you won't have any reason to be burdened by such irrational fear but rather can just move on to being practical about it.

Oh and yeah, often times manufactures tweak the separate picture settings presets in such a way that the user controlled same settings produce different results depending on what preset you are on. That is likely normal behavior for your display.

 

[AlNom]

Hum, are you sure that dead pixel policy applies to plasmas? Dead and stuck pixels are inherent to the design of an LCD, but it is a manufacturing flaws that cause plasmas to have them on rare occasion. Really weird that it is just a couple individual pixels too, when pixels do go out on a plasma it is usually a whole line of them. Regardless, you might want to look into having the store do a swap.

There are two red pixels kinda stuck there. Apparently the one I got was the last in the city -> they had to ship it from one side of the city to my house. So.. I dunno, about swapping it. It would be the thing to do immediately, but it's no biggie.

And ya, according to their website, the dead pixel policy I described applies to plasma TVs. (Hope you can see the direct link, but it's in their support -> faq -> plasma TVs, just in case.)

I only noticed it because I was checking out the anti-burn-in function. It's otherwise difficult to tell with TV shows or games.

Also, what do you mean by "ghost easily"? If you are playing the game and switching to an unused input and seeing an impression; that is only residual charge. Unlike IR, charging will disappear on it's own whether you use the display or not, it can last a while but has nothing to do with image retention and unlike IR is no cause for concern at all.

Forgive my terminology. I did mean image retention.

Also, while you'll probably never get even a hint of IR from the Halo 3's translucent HUD, changing what is displayed by zooming in with the binoculars for occasional moments doesn't change much as it is the accumulated difference in fading that cases image retention.

Ah... I didn't know that's how it worked. Thanks for clarifying that.

And again, *snip*

Thank you.

 

[AlNom]

Q: When I look very closely to the TV, it seems to be grainy. Is that normal?

edit: this was playing an Xbox 360 game as I would expect regular SD to look like absolute crap up close, of course.


edit2: 6000th post!

 

[kyleb]

Grainy how, and do you see it in the dashboard?

 

[AlNom]

hm... hard to describe, like... I can sort of see green and red pixels (for instance) moving a lot to compose the image? As soon as I move a back to regular viewing distance, my brain just sees the real picture. It's not the individual picture cells per se.

Compared to LCD, it just looks a little funny up-close. On LCD, the picture seems "as is". Just a curious thing.

 

[Gubbi]

hm... hard to describe, like... I can sort of see green and red pixels (for instance) moving a lot to compose the image?

That's normal.

Cheers

 

[kyleb]

Is the noise showing up only in darker areas, or on everything? If it's the former, then it's probably just noise in the signal, if it is the latter then it sounds like an issue with the display.

 

[AlNom]

I can only see it in dark areas, like shadows. So it sounds like that's normal.

I'm at about 60 hours of usage. The Mass Effect in-game radar doesn't seem to burn into the screen as easily anymore, and the same for Guitar Hero 3. The TV menus on the other hand... I wish it wouldn't display the menus with the full brightness/contrast.

Regarding HDMI and audio and Xbox 360 ->

If I get an HDMI cable for my 360, and I feed that to the TV, can I get the digital surround by using the optical out port from the TV to my receiver? My receiver is just shy of 10 years of age, so it doesn't have HDMI.

So, something like this:

Xbox 360 HDMI output <=======> Samsung HDMI input   
Samsung optical output <======> F*#!in Old Receiver

== Xbox 360 5.1 Surround ?

edit: Oh bugger... I guess that won't work:

RTFM, and it says:

If you have an external device (DVD. Cable/Set-top box) connected via HDMI to
the TV, audio is not output from the Optical jack.

doh!

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, the optical out on the TV is just for getting surround sound from the tuner in your TV. You can still get digital out from A/V out on the 360 though, you just need either the way overpriced official MS HDMI cable that comes with an optical adapter from the 360, pop the case off AV plug that came with your 360 to fit in the port along side the HDMI cable, as seen here.

Anyway, if you do switch to a digital video connection, the dark areas will still show the pixels flickering as varying the rate of is how plasmas produce different levels of color with slower flickering making darker shades. However, the prominence in green and red you are currently seeing over should be resolved as that is likely just analog signal noise. I get the same with analog connections on my plasma, though just a tiny bit of green with everything properly calibrated. LCDs on the other hand wont show such noise nearly as much due to the slow response times inherent to their design.

Also, could you describe what you mean by "burn into the screen"? The menu surely hasn't been or ever will be used long enough to cause any uneven phosphor wear, and I doubt either ME or GH3 was either unless you only played those games for the vast majority of the ~60 hours you have on the display. Judging from what you have said, it is likely that what you have witnessed is simply residual charging, phosphors continuing to glow just a bit for a while after they have been lit up brightly.

Residual charging can be most propionate on a barely used plasma, and the dregee of the effect varries in intensity between different manufactures designs as well. However, it is inherent to the nature of the display technology and the degree in which it happens will level out quickly and persist regardless of how many hours you put on your TV. But again, that is just a residual charge left after the lighting up the phosphors and that fades away on it's own, it's isn't a phenomena to be concerned about since, unlike uneven phosphor wear, residual charging can't compound into a greater problem.

And seriously, Don't Panic!

You are not going to harm your TV regardless of how long happen to junk out on GH3. The worse that can happen is that you play the game so much that it causes notably uneven fading of the phosphors, at which point you'll simply need to avoid GH3 and any other prolonged viewing of high contrast static content which could compound the problem until you've worn the phosphor wear back to even with other content. At worst, a few nights of leaving your display's screen wash function on overnight will get you back to playing GH3 without issue, and as the phosphors will be worn more by that point you'd have to torture the display even harder to cause uneven phosphor wear again.

 

[AlNom]

Also, could you describe what you mean by "burn into the screen"? The menu surely hasn't been or ever will be used long enough to cause any uneven phosphor wear, and I doubt either ME or GH3 was either unless you only played those games for the vast majority of the ~60 hours you have on the display. Judging from what you have said, it is likely that what you have witnessed is simply residual charging, phosphors continuing to glow just a bit for a while after they have been lit up brightly.

I tend to be quite slow in the menus, so I get a bit of image retention. It disappears rather quickly though after going back to some TV show. It's not that bad now that I think of it.

And yeah, I was playing ME for quite awhile (up to six hours at a time). The radar is the main culprit due to it being on anytime that isn't spent in the menus or conversations. Early on, GH3 had slight IR with the guitar background, but now it seems to be a lot better.

And seriously, Don't Panic!

I know I know... I'm just a control freak when it comes to things like these. I can't help it... much.

(I think it's because I've been reading AVS Forum too often).

But thank you very much for the lengthy explanations (really!) and the reassurance.

 

[kyleb]

I tend to be quite slow in the menus, so I get a bit of image retention. It disappears rather quickly though after going back to some TV show. It's not that bad now that I think of it.

And yeah, I was playing ME for quite awhile (up to six hours at a time). The radar is the main culprit due to it being on anytime that isn't spent in the menus or conversations. Early on, GH3 had slight IR with the guitar background, but now it seems to be a lot better.

Nah, I mean you'd have to spend a considerable number of hours in the menu to cause visibly uneven phosphor wear. You might have done that with ME, but surely not the menu.

With the presentence of the menu showing up in TV shows, that sounds like what best I can tell is a a flaw in the image processing, something I've witnessed on other models of Samsung plasmas. The impression of the menu disappears when you switch over to a different input actively displaying content, doesn't it?

(I think it's because I've been reading AVS Forum too often).

Understood. I struggled though that phase too back when I got my first plasma. There is some rather absurd myths and misinformation floating around such places which takes considerable effort to sift though, any though my own experience with that I have developed an empathy for others suffering though the same nonsense.

 

[pascal]

hm... hard to describe, like... I can sort of see green and red pixels (for instance) moving a lot to compose the image? As soon as I move a back to regular viewing distance, my brain just sees the real picture. It's not the individual picture cells per se.

Compared to LCD, it just looks a little funny up-close. On LCD, the picture seems "as is". Just a curious thing.

Yes, it is funny. The same effect here with my Panasonic PDP. It probably is related to some protection system based on moving the pixels to reduce the possibility of burn-in. IIRC Panasonic call it "pixel orbiting". And the image is grainy, but the image is better than my Sony LCD.