NVIDIA shows signs ... [2008 - 2017]

[AlphaWolf]

The other thing I've sort of wondered here is if Charlie is right and it is primarily HP notebooks that are the known problem here. . . . how many CEO's or Sr. VP's of Customer Service at other laptop makers woke up to this news and then immediately ordered an audit of their own recent warranty repair histories with an eye to seeing if they can dip their beak into nvidia's pocket, and how deeply, as well. Which might mean they have to come back for a second go at increasing that charge.

There's no doubt some OEMs are going to be looking to get compensation, deserved or not.

From what I've seen the dell m1330 is another likely part suffering from this issue. There's a few rather robust threads of recent failures going around. And coincidentally Dell just introduced a new line of 'Studio' laptops featuring Radeon graphics (3650). It's unlikely that its related to failing parts from nvidia but the tinfoil hat crowd will probably run with it.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

There's no doubt some OEMs are going to be looking to get compensation, deserved or not.

From what I've seen the dell m1330 is another likely part suffering from this issue. There's a few rather robust threads of recent failures going around. And coincidentally Dell just introduced a new line of 'Studio' laptops featuring Radeon graphics (3650). It's unlikely that its related to failing parts from nvidia but the tinfoil hat crowd will probably run with it.

I wouldn't rule it out of the realm of possibility by any means, but since HP does not currently offer a laptop utilizing a chassis which supports a 13.3" screen (as featured on the M1330), I doubt it.

 

[AlphaWolf]

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080708PD208.html

Surely Nvidia can't be serious...
Competing with the Atom will be very difficult at the low-end ("Poulsbo" and "Moorestown" will only aggravate things for any direct chipset competitor, with their far more advanced IGP's), unless, of course, they would somehow try to break into the "high-end" Atom platforms (sort of speak).

There were some early reports that Via's Isaiah is quite a bit faster than Atom. There's no doubt intel has brand power on its side, but the atom isn't exactly 'zomg fast'.

 

[Arty]

Another taker unhappy about Nvidia deflecting blame: NVIDIA: Let’s spread the blame far and wide

 

[INKster]

There were some early reports that Via's Isaiah is quite a bit faster than Atom. There's no doubt intel has brand power on its side, but the atom isn't exactly 'zomg fast'.

It could also be that they've only now realized that the CN will be in short supply and late to market, so they would have to find another way to sell more chipsets on a widespread Atom infrastructure.

 

[Geo]

Another taker unhappy about Nvidia deflecting blame: NVIDIA: Let’s spread the blame far and wide

What we are in fact seeing are OEMs such as HP releasing BIOS updates for a whole raft of models, such as this one which covers HP Pavilion dv2000/dv6000/dv9000 and Compaq Presario v3000/v6000 series notebook PCs. What’s this BIOS update do?

The new BIOS release for your notebook PC is preventative in nature to reduce the likelihood of future system issues. The BIOS updates the fan control algorithm of the system, and turns the fan on at low volume while your notebook PC is operational. If you are currently experiencing any symptoms on your notebook PC, please contact HP for support.

Sweet. So now they've got a nice little hit on battery life too for those who haven't had their gpu die yet.

So anyway, of course it is extremely unlikely that this thing will turn into the rolling catastrophe that the Sony battery recall became, but it does have some indications of a shoe or two left to drop.

 

[Acert93]

There's no doubt some OEMs are going to be looking to get compensation, deserved or not.

From what I've seen the dell m1330 is another likely part suffering from this issue. There's a few rather robust threads of recent failures going around. And coincidentally Dell just introduced a new line of 'Studio' laptops featuring Radeon graphics (3650). It's unlikely that its related to failing parts from nvidia but the tinfoil hat crowd will probably run with it.

I hope your M1330 speculation is false, seeing as I bought one within the last few months

 

[trinibwoy]

You know there's one glaring omission from all the outrage at Nvidia's finger pointing - nobody has put forward a plausible theory on how this could be their fault.

And Geo, with respect to your concern about the impact on user confidence: How many users with integrated 8500's in their lappies actually know who or what Nvidia is? In my experience laptop users associate their pains and gripes with the OEM (HP, Acer, etc) and not individual component designers / manufacturers.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You know there's one glaring omission from all the outrage at Nvidia's finger pointing - nobody has put forward a plausible theory on how this could be their fault.

Um what?

Separately, NVIDIA plans to take a one-time charge from $150 million to $200 million against cost of revenue for the second quarter to cover anticipated warranty, repair, return, replacement and other costs and expenses

You don't need a theory, they've confessed to at least some responsibility.

And Geo, to your concern about the impact on user confidence. How many users with integrated 8500's in their lappies actually know who or what Nvidia is? In my experience laptop users associate their pains and gripes with the OEM (HP, Acer, etc) and not individual component designers / manufacturers.

Obviously some won't know what part was responsible, but there's an Nvidia logo on the affected machines also.

 

[trinibwoy]

You don't need a theory, they've confessed to at least some responsibility.

Accepting responsibility is not a confession. The difference isn't exactly subtle. As someone mentioned it could be more a show of good will than anything else since as you pointed out it's their brand that's at stake.

Has HP issued an official statement to its customers describing the issue?

 

[ShaidarHaran]

I hope your M1330 speculation is false, seeing as I bought one within the last few months

It most likely is. Read my response to the post in question. I've not heard of other vendors having major issues with mobile Geforces.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Accepting responsibility is not a confession.

I'm pretty sure it is in both courts of law and public opinion.

The difference isn't exactly subtle. As someone mentioned it could be more a show of good will than anything else since as you pointed out it's their brand that's at stake.

Companies don't take $200 million write-offs as a "show of good will"

Has HP issued an official statement to its customers describing the issue?

Arty posted a link that contains some info on the matter (including announcement of a BIOS update to correct fan speeds and work around the issue) which Geo quoted.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Accepting responsibility is not a confession. The difference isn't exactly subtle. As someone mentioned it could be more a show of good will than anything else since as you pointed out it's their brand that's at stake.

Has HP issued an official statement to its customers describing the issue?

HP hasn't said anything. The only one to say anything is Nvidia. You don't write a 9 digit check for something that is not your fault. I don't doubt that some culpability to be had elsewhere, but the fact is that it is clearly Nvidia parts that are failing.

It most likely is. Read my response to the post in question. I've not heard of other vendors having major issues with mobile Geforces.

There's some rather lengthy threads about cooling and failures regarding the m1330 at notebookreviews.com. Perhaps its unrelated, but that seems a stretch to me.

 

[trinibwoy]

I'm pretty sure it is in both courts of law and public opinion.

Nobody "accepts responsibility" for a crime they didn't commit. What a horrendous analogy

This is more akin to supervisors taking the fall for subordinates' mistakes - see Jerome Kerviel.

Companies don't take $200 million write-offs as a "show of good will"

Well then the question still stands...what specifically makes it Nvidia's fault then. It seems everyone is fine with this rather important piece of info being missing. Nvidia paying up doesn't tell me how they contributed to this mess.

Also, what's the alternative? Go harrassing everybody up the value chain for restitution? That would go over really well.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Edited because it was a bit gratuitous and silly, my apologies.

 

[trinibwoy]

Edited because digi edited away the context

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Nobody "accepts responsibility" for a crime they didn't commit. What a horrendous analogy

I beg to differ. NV is saying they're not responsible, yet they're still accepting responsibility (monetarily). Just because you call a sheep's tail a leg doesn't mean it has 5 legs all of a sudden.

This is more akin to supervisors taking the fall for subordinates' mistakes - see Jerome Kerviel.

Perhaps, if you believe everything NV says on the matter and disregard the fact that it is NV that is responsible for qualification and testing of all their products.

Well then the question still stands...what specifically makes it Nvidia's fault then. It seems everyone is fine with this rather important piece of info being missing. Nvidia paying up doesn't tell me how they contributed to this mess.

Also, what's the alternative? Go harrassing everybody up the value chain for restitution? That would go over really well.

What makes it NV's fault is they've accepted the blame in the form of a $200 million write-off. Actions speak louder than words, so who cares what their denial department says?

I suppose the specific fault lies somewhere in the testing/qualification phase of R&D, or perhaps they gave poor thermal guidelines to OEMs.

edit: edited just to be part of the club

 

[trinibwoy]

I beg to differ. NV is saying they're not responsible, yet they're still accepting responsibility (monetarily). Just because you call a sheep's tail a leg doesn't mean it has 5 legs all of a sudden.

This is such a common situation in everyday life (parents/kids) and the workplace that I find your dismissal of it amusing.

Perhaps, if you believe everything NV says on the matter and disregard the fact that it is NV that is responsible for qualification and testing of all their products.

I wasn't aware that Nvidia is responsible for the testing and qualification of laptops. Isn't that the OEM's responsibility? I'm hearing a lot of fluff but are there even any theories as to how this could be Nvidia's fault? The lack of curiosity on the matter is telling.

I guess they could have provided incorrect TDP guidelines but until we know otherwise it seems like a simple case of bad case design or poor manufacturing quality similiar to what afflicted the Xbox360.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I hope your M1330 speculation is false, seeing as I bought one within the last few months

I hope the issue doesn't affect your particular model, but its probably better to know about it than to find out by having it fail.

I think this is the link about a heatsink mod for 8400GS m1330s.

Here is another discussing repairs. And another

 

[ShaidarHaran]

This is such a common situation in everyday life (parents/kids) and the workplace that I find your dismissal of it amusing.

Saying something is so does not make it so. That's all I said.

NV says they're not responsible, their actions demonstrate otherwise. Back to that whole $200 million "goodwill" writeoff thing...

I wasn't aware that Nvidia is responsible for the testing and qualification of laptops.

That's not what I said. It would be silly not to test their GPUs in an environment that closely reproduces the intended operating environment.

Isn't that the OEM's responsibility? I'm hearing a lot of fluff but are there even any theories as to how this could be Nvidia's fault?

I've seen and posited several.

The lack of curiosity on the matter is telling.

Given their track record, I think it's rather fair to err on the side of NV's guilt.

I guess they could have provided incorrect TDP guidelines but until we know otherwise it seems like a simple case of bad case design

The ODMs/OEMs aren't without blame here. Everyone has their hand in the pie for failing to catch the issue before it became epidemic. It's just NV holds the most responsibility (it is their product that's failing, after all).

or poor manufacturing quality similiar to what afflicted the Xbox360.

OT - was it really poor manufacturing that hampered the 360, or was it poor design? I haven't seen any admission of guilt here, but the HSF redesign surely points toward the latter.