NVIDIA shows signs ... [2008 - 2017]

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$210->$193 is less than a 10% reduction.

Oops! how :oops:

Yes 9.4% reduction, was in too much of hurry and conflated the 20% figure from the text in the same paragraph of the article which said R&D despite the cut had increased from 23.9% to 24.8% of revenue.

From the spreadsheet:
Q1 2008 $158m
Q2 2008 $180m
Q3 2008 $180m
Q4 2008 $196m
Q1 2009 $219m
Q2 2009 $213m
Q3 2009 $212m
Q4 2009 $212m
Q1 2010 $211m
Q2 2010 $193m

So there was a ramp up in Q4 2008 till last quarter.....maybe end of GT30X series? They are apparently producing 5 chips. Finished the last Ion? Tegra2? though from public statements they are pursuing Tegra aggressively in the future so less likely.

Strange thing is cutting so much from SG&A and R&D would normally come with redundancies or pay cuts, haven't heard talk of any of that lately.
 
Also have i missed something: where is Acer? also Sony? Everyone else seems to be lining up...

It looks like Sony has finally turned up:
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/10/sony-admits-14-defective-nvidia-notebooks/

Which just leaves Acer. I remember at the time when 8400 and 8600 were dominating the discrete gpus in the notebook market that Acer was just about the only vendor i could find that was selling Radeon parts at all ie 2400s, 2600s and maybe later 36XX series as part of upmarket Aspires and Travelmates. Nvidia had the rest of the market pretty much blanketed.

I also looked to see if Acer where possibly claiming via Compal or Quanta but it seems they largely OEM their laptops through Wistron which dont appear to be making a claim.
 
Yeah and it appears that Sony may have purposely kept mum this whole time in order for the surviving laptops with problems to come down to a smaller number thus having less people actually apply for the warranty service.

If someone can hunt down the page and post it in the forums, I would be grateful. Sony is extending the warranty to four years, but the people who already had a laptop fail, were quoted huge sums to fix and gave up, did pay to get them fixed, or worse yet, did something to void the warranty, well, they get the shaft.

So it sounds like anyone that got rid of the defective laptop are out of luck. And considering the hefty fee Sony charges for out of warranty repairs, well...

And apparently anyone that paid the fees to fix their laptop are out of luck. And anyone that tried to fix it themselves are out of luck.

Then again, perhaps when there's a more concrete announcement from Sony they'll do the right thing. Go after Nvidia for more money and take care of their customers with replacement laptops.

Regards,
SB
 
Wait, wasn't Jen-Hsun making lots of noise about greatly increasing R&D spending in previous conference calls?
Maybe R&D slows down when you suffer a 6-9 month delay on an important process? Maybe you even get some of that work at reduced cost from the third party who is supposed to be making that process work for you?

Jawed
 
Could see the above anecdotally at computex the vendors of Ion/9400 chipsets didn't have many models or were having trouble with availability. This suggests supply of product is short for some reason. Can think of 3 obvious reasons for this: bad behaviour by intel, some sort of production difficulty or supply has been deliberately limited to preserve average margins.

Here's an article from Ars Technica on Samsungs 11.6inch N510E and how tough it is for Ion: American MSRPs confirm lofty Ion Pricing; NVIDIA responds

Here's how bad it really is: a full-sized, 16 inch, Core 2 Duo-packing laptop with the superior GeForce 9500M GS, 4GB of RAM, and 320GB HDD can be had for $50 more, while Menlow- and AMD-based netbooks in this size and resolution range are available for more than $200 less. Smaller netbooks are available for half as much as the N510, and it's not clear that Ion will do well in the smaller size range. These market realities take the N510 (and, if this pricing holds for other models, Ion) definitively out of the mainstream market for netbooks. There is simply no way that the current $300 netbook can stand a $200 upsell in the mainstream market.

Worse, we have news by way of Liliputing that the N510 won't carry the Ion platform, but rather the related and inferior Ion LE platform, , which uses a GeForce 9400M GPU gimped in hardware to DirectX 9 operation, making it lower-performing when used in Windows Vista or Windows 7. The N510 will ship with Windows XP, but as netbooks transition to Windows 7, Ion-based netbooks will need to use the full-blown Ion platform, raising costs even further
......
If this trend comes anywhere close to holding, a $400 Ion netbook is unlikely to emerge, and Ion will be too much of an upsell to reach the mass market. While it's far too early to start nailing Ion into its coffin, it's probably a good idea to start socking away large amounts of money—for a funeral if Ion dies, or for a netbook if it lives.
:cry: particularly ouch on the last paragraph.

Hopefully nvidia management knew this was going to happen going in. Perhaps that Ion was some kind of bridging strategy till they could move their business across to Tegra or get Telsa generating enough income to sustain the company.
 
Hopefully nvidia management knew this was going to happen going in. Perhaps that Ion was some kind of bridging strategy till they could move their business across to Tegra or get Telsa generating enough income to sustain the company.

Nvidia still seem to think that their name alone is worth a massive price premium. The days when a product with an AMD or Intel chipset meant "crappy" are long gone. The market is very price driven and full of good alternative products at low prices, and Nvidia can't sell at higher prices just because they want to.
 
I'll probably stop posting for quite a while again after this, but FWIW I thought I'd comment on Ion and also Tegra.

Here's the key: On the desktop, an Atom 330@1.6GHz, unbundled, costs ~$43. A Celeron E3200@2.4GHz, unbundled, costs ~$43. On laptops, an Atom 330, unbundled, still costs ~$43. But a Celeron Dual-Core T3000@1.8GHz costs $80. The performance gap isn't as large and the latter's TDP is a full 35W.

In Q4 2009 (assuming no delay...) comes Ion2. FWIW, its specs are: 128-bit DDR3, GT216 with 16TMUs/48SPs, and Socket 775 support including VIA Nano.

On the desktop, I'm willing to bet NVIDIA will focus nearly exclusively on the Celeron E3xxx and Pentium E5xxx/E6xxx (plus VIA Nano). With Pineview and the resulting limited/inexistent supply of standalone Atoms, they don't have a choice, but this could actually be a good move either way. The costs will be higher than Pineview, and the power consumption too (although xbitlabs has measured the E3200 as taking less than 20W; the 65W TDP is massively inflated but I wonder if it doesn't still force OEMs to use very large heatsinks for passive) - but neither massively so. And the value proposition will be very obvious, even more than with Ion1.

On laptops, it's a perfect refresh platform for the 2010 Macbook obviously. It's also very viable for relatively low-end notebooks. But in netbooks, it'd obviously need to run at very low clock speeds and it's not clear standalone Atoms will be either available or desirable by then. Therefore, NVIDIA's best shot at Back-to-School 2010 design wins would be VIA Nano - and how that turns out depends completely on how well VIA executes. Never a good thing, with all due respect to the amazing job VIA/Centaur has done given their small team size and how optimistic I am about the 40nm Nano once it does come out.

This obviously brings us to NVIDIA's true strategy for netbooks: Tegra. With 35 smartbooks design wins and a surprisingly massive number of major carriers on board, they've got a very good shot at this if carriers don't screw it up and the media isn't even more retarded than I thought (would be surprising given my current view of it). More importantly, their roadmap and execution seems strong (already sampling the handheld variant of Tegra2 today).

I know some people will disagree completely with this, but the most insightful comment I've heard from Jen-Hsun at Analyst Day 2009 - and possibly the most insightful I've heard of any *semiconductor* CEO period - is the realization that the x86 PC is no longer where most of the developer attention is going to for consumer apps. Most of it is going to the web and handhelds, and it's clear this trend is only increasing every day. I'd personally argue that besides gaming, most of the effort in PCs is going to apps that are relevant to consumers but much more so to corporate (e.g. Office); and this effort is increasingly being duplicated on other platforms.

x86 Everywhere was a good idea 10 years ago. Soon it will be a pipe dream for people who haven't grown up.

(and before people think I'm saying all this strictly in defense of NVIDIA; I'm very skeptical they can deliver Ion2 in Q4 anyway. And notice I didn't talk about Ion3 or Consumer GPGPU. Enough said. While I still believe x86 will commoditize, that certainly does NOT mean NVIDIA will ultimately benefit much unless you consider a weaker Intel a benefit in itself. I'm more optimistic about their ARM prospects for a wide variety of obvious reasons)
 
I'll probably stop posting for quite a while again after this, but FWIW I thought I'd comment on Ion and also Tegra.

Here's the key: On the desktop, an Atom 330@1.6GHz, unbundled, costs ~$43. A Celeron E3200@2.4GHz, unbundled, costs ~$43. On laptops, an Atom 330, unbundled, still costs ~$43. But a Celeron Dual-Core T3000@1.8GHz costs $80. The performance gap isn't as large and the latter's TDP is a full 35W.

In Q4 2009 (assuming no delay...) comes Ion2. FWIW, its specs are: 128-bit DDR3, GT216 with 16TMUs/48SPs, and Socket 775 support including VIA Nano.

On the desktop, I'm willing to bet NVIDIA will focus nearly exclusively on the Celeron E3xxx and Pentium E5xxx/E6xxx (plus VIA Nano). With Pineview and the resulting limited/inexistent supply of standalone Atoms, they don't have a choice, but this could actually be a good move either way. The costs will be higher than Pineview, and the power consumption too (although xbitlabs has measured the E3200 as taking less than 20W; the 65W TDP is massively inflated but I wonder if it doesn't still force OEMs to use very large heatsinks for passive) - but neither massively so. And the value proposition will be very obvious, even more than with Ion1.

On laptops, it's a perfect refresh platform for the 2010 Macbook obviously. It's also very viable for relatively low-end notebooks. But in netbooks, it'd obviously need to run at very low clock speeds and it's not clear standalone Atoms will be either available or desirable by then. Therefore, NVIDIA's best shot at Back-to-School 2010 design wins would be VIA Nano - and how that turns out depends completely on how well VIA executes. Never a good thing, with all due respect to the amazing job VIA/Centaur has done given their small team size and how optimistic I am about the 40nm Nano once it does come out.

This obviously brings us to NVIDIA's true strategy for netbooks: Tegra. With 35 smartbooks design wins and a surprisingly massive number of major carriers on board, they've got a very good shot at this if carriers don't screw it up and the media isn't even more retarded than I thought (would be surprising given my current view of it). More importantly, their roadmap and execution seems strong (already sampling the handheld variant of Tegra2 today).

I know some people will disagree completely with this, but the most insightful comment I've heard from Jen-Hsun at Analyst Day 2009 - and possibly the most insightful I've heard of any *semiconductor* CEO period - is the realization that the x86 PC is no longer where most of the developer attention is going to for consumer apps. Most of it is going to the web and handhelds, and it's clear this trend is only increasing every day. I'd personally argue that besides gaming, most of the effort in PCs is going to apps that are relevant to consumers but much more so to corporate (e.g. Office); and this effort is increasingly being duplicated on other platforms.

x86 Everywhere was a good idea 10 years ago. Soon it will be a pipe dream for people who haven't grown up.

(and before people think I'm saying all this strictly in defense of NVIDIA; I'm very skeptical they can deliver Ion2 in Q4 anyway. And notice I didn't talk about Ion3 or Consumer GPGPU. Enough said. While I still believe x86 will commoditize, that certainly does NOT mean NVIDIA will ultimately benefit much unless you consider a weaker Intel a benefit in itself. I'm more optimistic about their ARM prospects for a wide variety of obvious reasons)

x86 has massive advantages over the god awful crap provided by the carriers. When you write an app for a mobile phone, you basically are at the mercy of the carrier to get it advertised, marketed, sold, etc.

If they decide they don't like you, tough crap. It's a very very difficult world.

Apple is making it easier, and Nokia will likely follow in their footsteps, but developers like the freedom that the PC provides. However, the huge market size of mobile phones is very attractive.

One good thing about the carriers is that because it's a closed platform you don't really get many viruses, etc. Although I seem to get spam SMS from time to time.

Anyway, what attracts SW devs is:
1. Open platform
2. Market size
3. Pricing power
4. Development cost (e.g. iphone games are cheaper than crysis!)

David
 
Anyway, what attracts SW devs is:
1. Open platform
2. Market size
3. Pricing power
4. Development cost (e.g. iphone games are cheaper than crysis!)

David

I think this 'open platform' concept is way too high on the list. Most developers basically want to put food on the table. So 2 and 4 are what matters, along with a secure delivery platform.

You need to look no further than the console area, along with Apple's App Store, to see that an open platform is of no concern to many devs.
 
IMHO, "openl platform" is no longer that important because even the most closed platform uses standard programming languages and libraries like C/C++. This is very different from back then when you have to write in some kinds of assembly to achieve reasonable performance.

Another issue is entry barrier. Generally closed platform has some sorts of entry barrier. For example, you have to pay quite a bit for a development tool of a console. Apple makes the entry barrier of its mobile platform pretty low so it's much more accessible to independent developers.

Of course, developers still like open platform if possible. As you can see, Apple have the final say about whether you can or can not sell your applications on Apple App Store. It's their store, of course, but there is no other way to distribute your application on an iPhone or iPod Touch. Some developers who can't get the blessing of Apple turn to jailbroken iPhones, but the market is much smaller.
 
David, feature phones are irrelevant. Three years from now, they'll look like a historical oddity at best. The market predictions for smartphone penetration have clearly been made by people who have no idea what's going on and polarization is going to be much more extreme than people assume.

There is a very interesting debate to be had on Tegra and how much NVIDIA's willingness to give carriers greater control over the entire process has resulted in a leading number of design wins. I don't have the time to have that debate though. But I think in the mid-term and beyond the carriers won't have much of anything to say about applications.
 
There is a very interesting debate to be had on Tegra and how much NVIDIA's willingness to give carriers greater control over the entire process has resulted in a leading number of design wins. I don't have the time to have that debate though. But I think in the mid-term and beyond the carriers won't have much of anything to say about applications.

I think the LAST thing anyone wants is more carrier control and input. Talking from the consumer perspective, everything most carrier have had a hand in is terribly bad.

I also don't think its coincidence that the two smart phones that carriers have had the least input and control over are also the two most successful.
 
Isn't that going to happen anyway? There's no mention of any down market parts based on GT3xx coming anytime soon.

They should have something right? GT214/15?
A new "Are you Ready" campaign and a $75 9800GTX replacement and you're set.
 
They should have something right? GT214/15?
A new "Are you Ready" campaign and a $75 9800GTX replacement and you're set.
214 and 215 are low end parts with perfomance at G92b level which is lower than RV830/Juniper if you believe the latest data.
Somehow i don't see them competing with Cypress/RV870 with G92-level GPUs. I think that either they'll use G200 for this (which will be quite funny) or we simply don't know enough about G3xx line right now.

This is a good move actually. They're basically adopting AMDs current naming scheme which is the best there ever was in my opinion.
 
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