nVidia shader patent (REYES/Raytracing/GI) destined for PS3?

[Fox5]

They always liked to be backwards compatable and REYES wouldn't do that therefore Nvidia maybe hesitant to use it

Except maybe in a proprietary machine that doesn't need to be backwards compatible with every hardware accelerated game on the x86 platform?.. something like, a game console? =P

Sure, they couldn't slap the tech into thier next generation PC gpu, but how many PS2s are out there again?

Would they really want to sacrifice their PC product line even worse than what they did with geforce fx? I suppose they could take a break for a year from pc graphics, but if PC graphics remain alive and well then ati will be the one releasing a new product in the fall and nvidia releasing one in spring of next year that can just barely compete with the previous product, let alone the new one ati is releasing in the spring.

 

[randycat99]

Looking at a more grand, ahem, vision , perhaps nVidia is orchestrating a position that looks farther than just what to sell next year. For a long time, it has been premised (in the developer community) when could there be a logical break from the nasty x86 legacy once and for all? It stifles processor design, complicates software development, and more than likely has slowed the advance of high-performance CG. Yet, year after year it has to be supported because it is that entrenched into the industry. So is it possible that nVidia has seen the writing on the wall (or maybe even actively drawn the lines in the sand) to jump in Sony's boat to make the "impossible", possible? They want to not only take first divs on a bold new computing paradigm, but they want to take an active role in molding it using their well-honed graphics technology expertise. This new computing paradigm will be something crafted from the synergies of processors, OS, and graphics functionality designed from scratch and out of the knowledge of how it should be done, given a clean sheet of paper. No longer is there a subservience to legacy x86 or existing hardware born to survive in the x86 world.

So you can premise that they will miss the hardware cycle for PC GPU's next year, but do not forget that they will be well revenued for years to come for the work they have put into PS3. On top of that, they will be well out of the gate and running in this exciting new computing paradigm (if it really exists, and if it indeed proves viable). They will be deep into the development curve for creating successive videocard products for the computers that are born out of this new computing paradigm.

Now I'm not saying that this is for certain. I'm not even saying it will succeed if there is indeed a "grand plan". It's just a wacky theory. However, I believe it sheds light on how nVidia has positioned themself such that it "seems" they are abandoning territory that would conventionally be seen as their home turf. For lack of less provocative terms, the real issue to be observed could be that they are "abandoning a sinking ship", rather than an old, trusted money-making territory.

 

[Fox5]

I don't think the x86 pc market will die unless 1 of two things happens...
Microsoft decides it should die.
Sony includes computer like functionality that is good enough for the average person in their Ps3.

 

[randycat99]

Of course it will die some day. Everything does...

More seriously, this might be something that self-implodes or just dies a slow death (by no small measure of MS spending its very last dollar to prevent it dying trend).

Also, don't count out the possibility of non-x86-based Sony desktops to appear somewhere down the line. If it can fulfill the basic needs of the typical home user while shedding the Windows-related downsides of current desktops, that could just turn out to be a big hit. ...and if the Cell-based internals manage to deliver an undismissable wallop in graphics and multimedia functionality, that just may be enough to seal the fate of the x86 era. True, there is a lot hanging in the balance for that to happen, but it certainly is within the realm of possibility.

 

[j^aws]

This was posted from Nirey, a respected and trusted poster from PSINEXT,

Hey sorry guys, i have not posted in so long since last time. But anyways i am sorry i couldn't say anything about this sweet deal until it was announced since i was under very tight NDA's. Anyways, now it's official, and i would like to say that this is a co-joint collaboration between sony in-house graphics technology and Nvidia technology. What this means is that this "custom-gpu" is a totally different architecture that is not based on an existing architecture from Nvidia.

More will come soon.

http://psinext.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=84712#84712

Hmmm...curioser and curioser...REYES?...Raytracing?...GI?

 

[V3]

More will come soon.

Soon can't come soon enough

 

[j^aws]

More will come soon.

Soon can't come soon enough

Indeed...the ideal time to introduce something like this would be in a clean-sheet, legacy free console architecture guaranteed tens of millions in sale, even with a less than perfect introduction! 8)

 

[j^aws]

For a limited time, NVIDIA is making Gelato 1.1 available at approximately 45% off the regular price:



Software Only
$1,799 (includes Gelato 1.1 and 1 year M&S), save $1,476

Gelato/Quadro FX 700 Bundle
$2,099 (includes Gelato 1.1, 1 year M&S, and Quadro FX 700), save $1,691

Gelato/Quadro FX 3000 Bundle
$2,499 (includes Gelato 1.1, 1 year M&S, and Quadro FX 3000), save $2,076

For more information on the Quadro FX boards, see http://film.nvidia.com/page/quadro.html

Contact Matt Jefferson, NVIDIA Digital Film Group Sales, at gelatosales@nvidia.com or (951) 898-8863 for details on how to order Gelato at this special price.

Special prices good through 14 January 2005. Get it before it melts.

http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato.html

Hmmm...there seems to be a huge nVidia sale on with it's current Gelato software/hardware packages...hmmm...I wonder why!

 

[PC-Engine]

If Apple with it's OSX and flashy computers can't make a significant dent in the Windows/Intel/AMD market, how will SONY and the unproven CELL kill anything? Unless they start dumping hardware and software, I don't see it happening.

 

[ChryZ]

If Apple with it's OSX and flashy computers can't make a significant dent in the Windows/Intel/AMD market, how will SONY and the unproven CELL kill anything? Unless they start dumping hardware and software, I don't see it happening.

Well, maybe it will have something OSX is lacking, how about a steady supply of kick ass, triple A, install hassle free games?

 

[PC-Engine]

If Apple with it's OSX and flashy computers can't make a significant dent in the Windows/Intel/AMD market, how will SONY and the unproven CELL kill anything? Unless they start dumping hardware and software, I don't see it happening.

Well, maybe it will have something OSX is lacking, how about a steady supply of kick ass, triple A, install hassle free games?

Why buy a computer for that when you can get it from a console?

 

[ChryZ]

Why buy a computer for that when you can get it from a console?

Why buy a computer and a console?

 

[jvd]

From now on do not make a new thread about this . This about the 18th thread we have had in the last month about reyes .

PIck one thread and keep it all in there .

 

[PC-Engine]

Why buy a computer for that when you can get it from a console?

Why buy a computer and a console?

Because a computer can do so much more than a game console unless you think PS3 disguised as a computer will be replacing PCs and Macs.

 

[ChryZ]

Why buy a computer for that when you can get it from a console?

Why buy a computer and a console?

Because a computer can do so much more than a game console unless you think PS3 disguised as a computer will be replacing PCs and Macs.

Well, who knows. We got some talk about cell-based workstations, Sony gave Linux to PS2 users, Sony got a very appealing line of well designed VAIO computers ... let's throw in some ifs: PC designed around the PS3 platform, HDD, some OS (e.g. Linux based), able to run signed PS3 game code, able to run a bunch of Linux apps (e.g. Firefox, OpenOffice, Thunderbird, mplayer, gimp), some effort to make it usuable for end-users (flashy GUI, some easy to use package installation system), utilizing the advantages of the cell architecture (networkbased computational loadsharing, no computational x86/ppc islands anymore)... it perhaps would work, in a kinda Amiga/ST way. Sure it wouldn't kill x86 overnight, but it would be an option and it would be something to build on. I would like it, even though it's unlikely to happen *sigh*

... and wasn't there a rumor, that MS was going to release three XBox2-based platforms, one being some kind of PC setup?

 

[rabidrabbit]

A "computer" for home use does not need to perform all the functions, run similar types of software as a "computer" for business use.

A mainstream "computer" user doesn't need to run cad-applications, heavy database software, complicated spreadsheet, publishing software...

A home "computer" user is not the same as a geek computer user.

A home "computer" user wants to edit/view/listen photographs, video, music, maybe write a few sheets of text, e-mail, internet, video/voice/text chat, play games.... mostly entertainment. Some "heavy" user might want to keep track of family income, bills etc...

How many (non geek) PC users are really using their computers for other than entertainment.

 

[London Geezer]

A "computer" for home use does not need to perform all the functions, run similar types of software as a "computer" for business use.

A mainstream "computer" user doesn't need to run cad-applications, heavy database software, complicated spreadsheet, publishing software...

A home "computer" user is not the same as a geek computer user.

A home "computer" user wants to edit/view/listen photographs, video, music, maybe write a few sheets of text, e-mail, internet, video/voice/text chat, play games.... mostly entertainment. Some "heavy" user might want to keep track of family income, bills etc...

How many (non geek) PC users are really using their computers for other than entertainment.

Mmmm I don't think it's up to Sony to decide what people can do with their own computers.

Besides, what i was thinking was, a PS3 will in the end cost as much as a high-end PC graphics card, around 300 quid.
So what's stopping Sony to include at least part of the PS3 architecture, up to them which part, to their Vaio line, in order to accellerate specific tasks.
Obviously they will have to come up with new motherboards, and it might incurr problems with Intel or AMD and whatever vendors they usually put in their Vaio line of computers...
But they could easily "hide" Cell in there somewhere, if they wanted to.

 

[PC-Engine]

A "computer" for home use does not need to perform all the functions, run similar types of software as a "computer" for business use.

A mainstream "computer" user doesn't need to run cad-applications, heavy database software, complicated spreadsheet, publishing software...

A home "computer" user is not the same as a geek computer user.

A home "computer" user wants to edit/view/listen photographs, video, music, maybe write a few sheets of text, e-mail, internet, video/voice/text chat, play games.... mostly entertainment. Some "heavy" user might want to keep track of family income, bills etc...

How many (non geek) PC users are really using their computers for other than entertainment.

People want the option of having many differing levels of computers from power users all the way down to light users. Apple already does many of these things yet they still can't increase their marketshare beyond niche status. How is a light PS3 computer gonna even compete beyond even Apples tiny share? PCs are dirt cheap nowadays so cost isn't even going to be an advantage for a so called PS3 computer.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Do they really? Or is it just because they really have no other option?

I don't think Sony is even targeting the "power users".

and it's arguable how many of the so called "power users" really are power users. They might like themselves to be called "power users" and they might think they are "power users", but in reality they use their PC's very "lightly" (updating your drivers monthly, re-installing the OS every year, trying to get things to work... that doesn't necessarily a "power user" make )

 

[PC-Engine]

Do they really? Or is it just because they really have no other option?

Yes they do really. If they didn't then every PC being sold would be a light version. The more powerful PCs cost more than the light versions. People wouldn't buy the higher priced ones if they didn't want the higher performance. It doesn't matter what the power users actually use that power for if they indeed even use it. The point is they want choices since it's their money. It's like cars. Do you have to actually race them for you to go out and buy a Porsche? Most sportscars never touch a race track.