nVidia shader patent (REYES/Raytracing/GI) destined for PS3?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by j^aws, Dec 8, 2004.

  1. j^aws

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    8
    System and method of adjusting ray origins when shading vertices with rays

    I know I can't help myself, so sue me! :p

    But with some talk of what PS3 may do prior to this nVidia announcement, this patent would be a suitable match for PS3 and CELL, no? Especially with Peter Hofstee's recent talk of physics based modelling, ray casting etc. With the importance of shading technology next gen, it's the only patent filed by nVidia that mentions REYES, ray-tracing and global illumination that I could find! :D Even if it's not for PS3, it's still interesting! :)
     
  2. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    91
    So what exactly is it that this patent does? It's not immediately obvious for someone that isn't a graphics programmer and versed in patent legalese. :D

    Also, what is it that it does different than other raycasting schemes that makes it patentable? :p
     
  3. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,508
    Likes Received:
    5,153
    It has more the's in the patent.
     
  4. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    That patent is from Larry Gritz.
    Mr. Gritz is an ex Pixar who founded Ex Luna. ExLuna got acquired by NVIDIA a couple of years ago. NVIDIA also settled some patents litigation between Pixar and ExLuna.
    IIRC Gritz also developed BMRT (Blue Moon Rendering Tool) the first renderman compliant interface ray tracer (it used some kind of global illumination algorithm too..) who was used as ray server when PRMAN didn't supported ray tracing.
    Now he's working on GELATO. That patent is about ExLuna rendering technology, now owned by NVIDIA.

    ciao,
    Marco
     
  5. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    91
    Um, thanks for all the background infos, but like I said in my other post, what does it DO, exactly? :p

    Also, I have to ask... Do you have some kind of patent fetish or something? You even keep track of who develops what for whom, and which companies sue each other and then pays the bills... :D
     
  6. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,508
    Likes Received:
    5,153
    He's actually a 8 headed, tentacle armed alien, plugged to the internet, and everytime the word "patent" goes through him, he wakes up and posts here.
     
  7. Guden Oden

    Guden Oden Senior Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    91
    So why didn't he post when the Abdominal Chruncher was patented, huh? :D
     
  8. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,508
    Likes Received:
    5,153
    He did, in the fatgeek.com message boards.
     
  9. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    That patent is about how efficiently merge REYES algorithm with ray tracing.
    Larry Gritz started many years ago (when he worked at Pixar) to study how to improve REYES:

    BMRT: A Global Illumination Implementation
    of the RenderMan Standard


    I'm not a patent fetish (OMG :roll:) or an 8 headed alien, I just have a good memory and a nice list of names and terms to check on patent databases. Actually, browsing that list, it takes me 15 minutes (one check per week) to make a full scan of the interesting new patents.. 8)
     
  10. j^aws

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    8
    If this Sony-nVidia collaboration opens up access to these forms of patents/IPs including ones accessible through STI, I can see this being as an extremely bright and fruitfull move. :)

    If they had a paticular direction in mind with CELL and PS3, the last thing they would've wanted was to get hindered by patents and make compromises. And this patent is a juicy one to have access to! :p
     
  11. McFly

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Zurich, Switzerland
    So they needed Nvidia for REYES? Has Pana anything to do with this? ;)

    Fredi

    PS: Reading the patent now.
     
  12. j^aws

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    8
    Well I hate to speculate, (ahem...yeah right!) but nAo mentioned that ExLuna got bought by nVidia a couple of years ago... and when did nVidia start work on the PS3 GPU...hmm?...Maybe they could implement something from this in hardware for the PS3 GPU? :twisted:

    And no, Pana had nothing to do with this... ;)
     
  13. Xenus

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Ohio
    Wouldn't the fact that Nvidia says they are making a customized version of their next generation gpu rule out REYES unless Nvidia is lying again. :?
    For no matter how much better it is it has to haev an Api to stand on and of course devolopers do not like change. Thus microsoft will continue DirectX in it's direction leaving Nvidia out to dry. :cry:
     
  14. McFly

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Google, your best friend (or maybe not):

    http://developer.nvidia.com/object/IO_20020612_7133.html

    That was some months before Sony and Nvidia started working together. Maybe this new GPU is the hardware realistation of the software ideas they had earlier that year and Sony was the perfect partner to realise it.

    Fredi
     
  15. Xenus

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,316
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Ohio
    Yes I know but the problem is the programming industry will resist radical change. They always liked to be backwards compatable and REYES wouldn't do that therefore Nvidia maybe hesitant to use it in there next generation of gpu simply because they are afraid if they take the risk no one will follow and they will be hung out to dry. It is not so much wether it is feasible or even better but will they be able to make money when they do it.
     
  16. McFly

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Yeah, we need more infos from Sony or Nvidia. ;)

    However:

    Imagine Stream processors and REYES:

    http://shorterlink.com/?1GNQ4F

    Fredi
     
  17. V3

    V3
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    3,304
    Likes Received:
    5
  18. j^aws

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    8
  19. Megadrive1988

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Messages:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    148
    I watched the Hofstee video. extremely interesting to see someone who is at the heart of Cell's design talk about it. I could easily understand what he was saying. thanks for posting the vid.

    even if PS3 does not reach 1,000 times the performance of PS2 as Sony stated in fall 1999, at least they might reach the '18,000 times PS1' performance, which was a mid-to-late 1990s desire of game developers, according to Sony.

    i.e. Sony states that PS2 is 300 times the performance of PS1. therefore PS3 would only need to be 60 times the performance of PS2. unless my math is flawed :) again, going by Sony's figures and Sony's thinking.
     
  20. gurgi

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    1
    Except maybe in a proprietary machine that doesn't need to be backwards compatible with every hardware accelerated game on the x86 platform?.. something like, a game console? =P

    Sure, they couldn't slap the tech into thier next generation PC gpu, but how many PS2s are out there again? ;)
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...