NVIDIA Kepler speculation thread

[Alexko]

DDR3 will also be significantly lower power draw than GDDR5, and probably have more in common than most of the notebook implementations. The idle power is a very important factor for notebooks that are driving the display from the discrete graphics as well.

Is it really, with Optimus and Enduro?

 

[no-X]

Dave explicitly mentioned "that are driving the display from the discrete graphics". Optimus/Enduro notebooks aren't.

 

[Alexko]

Dave explicitly mentioned "that are driving the display from the discrete graphics". Optimus/Enduro notebooks aren't.

Ah, sorry, I didn't get that he was referring specifically to the output, not just the component being used at any given time.

Do many notebooks still drive the display from the discrete graphics? Is there any good reason to do so and lose out on Optimus/Enduro?

 

[KimB]

Ah, sorry, I didn't get that he was referring specifically to the output, not just the component being used at any given time.

Do many notebooks still drive the display from the discrete graphics? Is there any good reason to do so and lose out on Optimus/Enduro?

I think there are a lot of notebooks out there that don't use either, because not that many customers know about them. And because Enduro has only been available with the 7000HD series, while many notebooks are still shipping with 6000HD series chips. Though I can find some products with the current generation of graphics (HP's site has some, for example), I can't find any that advertise either Optimus or Enduro on HP's or Dell's websites. For example.

 

[A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y]

You are so lucky. Only 24 hours ago there was 0 in stock at newegg, now you can choose between 4 of them. Suddenly the demand dropped so much that you have something in stock.

Good grief you do whine a lot. First you complain that Nvidia has yield issues because Newegg can't keep the GTX680 in stock. Now that more supply is finally coming on board you whine that demand has dropped.

And by the way I did post earlier that as soon as supply improved and the GTX680 remained in stock that the brown nosing char-LIE lovers would state it was because no one wants the GTX680. I'm happy to see that you proved my point.

Now back to reality. The GTX680 has been a massive hit for Nvidia with demand greater than 60% higher than the GTX580 at the same point in the release cycle and that supply of it is finally getting close to demand. If you want one buy it now as the will usually be sold out by in a few days and not restocked until the following monday/tuesday (just like the previous week).

And Universal please change your name to UniversalAMDtroll to be more truthful.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Good grief you do whine a lot. First you complain that Nvidia has yield issues because Newegg can't keep the GTX680 in stock. Now that more supply is finally coming on board you whine that demand has dropped..

You can't even distinguish sarcasm, ok, I know sarcasm tags are invisible but.... that doesn't justify things you write.

 

[silent_guy]

You can't even distinguish sarcasm, ...

It has something to do with a boy and crying wolf.

Most of your post make me wonder.

 

[silent_guy]

... I can't find any that advertise either Optimus or Enduro on HP's or Dell's websites. For example.

On the other hand, I didn't realize my MacBook order had switchable graphics until really started looking for it. Apparently, it's now something that's simply taken for granted.

 

[A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y]

You can't even distinguish sarcasm, ok, I know sarcasm tags are invisible but.... that doesn't justify things you write.

Quote(s) from UniversalTruth:

You are so lucky. Only 24 hours ago there was 0 in stock at newegg, now you can choose between 4 of them. Suddenly the demand dropped so much that you have something in stock

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1649230&postcount=4920

He is just saying that GTX680 yield is bad and there is hard evidence all over the world. Don't you see that chip is overclocked from the factory like hell?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648983&postcount=4893

Charlie doesn't think like this.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648450&postcount=4845

At present, everything is out of stock at both newegg (out of 18 !!! nothing) and hardwareversand (ok, here you have a single card available for dispatch, out of 14 !!! ). You have some 670s which also points out to stockpiling of chips with worse characteristics, salvage too much.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1646653&postcount=4769

Another 'woodscrew moment' for dear leader. We can't renounce that his biography is full of such moments.

Where is the Big-K woodscrew puppy?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1646518&postcount=4752

That's NV to blame, not Charlie, he is absolutely right to accept GK104 as a mainstream part with its real and fair price of 300. Like all sane people who value their efforts and hardly earned money.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1646359&postcount=4736

 

[UniversalTruth]

Yes, you are saying that the reason behind close to zero availability at newegg is great demand.
In reply I put sarcasm and say it is impossible. Is it so difficult to understand or you intentially make it personal and troll me?

Period and stop responding.

 

[trinibwoy]

Yes, you are saying that the reason behind close to zero availability at newegg is great demand.

Is that much different to your futile attempts to extrapolate supply/demand into a yield problem when you are providing zero evidence of absolute sales numbers?

Hint: you can have supply problems even with fantastic yields if demand is sufficiently high. For some reason you seem incapable of understanding such a simple thing. Where is your evidence of bad yields, low demand or poor sales on GK104 parts?

 

[trinibwoy]

For one, where on earth does this stem from? Second, exactly what relevance to Apple does this have?

I haven't seen many reports of FXAA working better. There was one article from [H] showing it to have a lower perf cost than MLAA for similar IQ.

The big difference is really marketing as usual. nVidia has gotten developers on board with in-game support in a pretty short time.

 

[A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y]

Yes, you are saying that the reason behind close to zero availability at newegg is great demand.
In reply I put sarcasm and say it is impossible.

NVIDIA claims GTX 680 sales outpace GTX 580


http://pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-claims-GTX-680-sales-outpace-GTX-580

 

[Dave Baumann]

I haven't seen many reports of FXAA working better. There was one article from [H] showing it to have a lower perf cost than MLAA for similar IQ.

I don't recall if [H] did an updated test on MLAA 2.0 or not, but here is one quick test:

As you can see, FXAA yields a blurrier picture than AMD’s morphological anti-aliasing, and MLAA 2.0 results in an even crisper picture compared to the original.

The big difference is really marketing as usual. nVidia has gotten developers on board with in-game support in a pretty short time.

MLAA has been in titles for a long time as well (as far back as Deus Ex and Shogun 2) and we have AMD optimized version of FXAA as well.

 

[3dcgi]

If we only look at 16x10 and 19x10 resolutions, a GT640 is 24% behind a 7750 in perf/W. (Assuming all tests run at the indicated power.) That's doesn't seem to be an insurmountable gap by switching to GDDR5, considering the large amount of ROP and shaders and pathetic bandwidth.

It's not as if one has to beat the other into submission. Competitive is sufficient. Difference in brand reputation, perceived driver quality, and pricing (smaller die, as you pointed out) can do the rest.

Edit: FWIW, the only straight comparison I could find between DDR3 and GDDR5 for otherwise identical cards, is this one. If you average the performance of gain for all 16x10 results, you get a speedup of 24.7%. (For this particular case, power consumption was surprisingly identical, but you need many samples to come to a firm conclusion on that one. That's true also for those THG results, of course.) It's a different architecture with different unit ratios, but it shows that a 25% improvement is not some number from lala land and it's better than pretending there is no difference.

You can't really compare power consumption of DDR3 and GDDR5 with the same chip. The DDR3 implementation needs to not support GDDR5 as there's a cost in the memory PHY. I don't know the state of PHY's today, but GDDR5 support was a big reason the Radeon 4000 series wasn't as power efficient as it should have been.

 

[silent_guy]

You can't really compare power consumption of DDR3 and GDDR5 with the same chip. The DDR3 implementation needs to not support GDDR5 as there's a cost in the memory PHY. I don't know the state of PHY's today, but GDDR5 support was a big reason the Radeon 4000 series wasn't as power efficient as it should have been.

The only reason you can't derive major conclusions is because the die characteristics will be different. Other than that (major issue), PHY implementation particulars don't really matter when all you want is some rough idea between the two, especially if the 7750 and GT640 silicon both support GDDR5 and DDR3.

Either way, if you shouldn't compare the two cases for the same design, you definitely shouldn't compare the DDR3 perf/W of one arch against the GDDR5 perf/W of the other.

Which was really the point I was trying to make in the first place.

 

[CarstenS]

You are so lucky. Only 24 hours ago there was 0 in stock at newegg, now you can choose between 4 of them. Suddenly the demand dropped so much that you have something in stock.

Actually, the reaity shows something like: you have few days with non availability at newegg and only few cards available at hardwarevertsand, at the next period of few days things reverse- you have some models in newegg and nothing at hardwareversand.
I begin to forget when its launch was, so long ago.

Why is it exactly that you're focussing so much on shops where a particular item is not available, ignoring the long list of shops were it is?

Funny (true) story: When I was at my local bank before coming to the US and I wanted to exchange some money, they said they didn't have any in stock, I could order for the next business day. Do we sense a major yield problem here for the United States - not being able to supply enough dollars for my trip? (I wanted about 50 or so...) /jk

 

[Alexko]

Why is it exactly that you're focussing so much on shops where a particular item is not available, ignoring the long list of shops were it is?

Funny (true) story: When I was at my local bank before coming to the US and I wanted to exchange some money, they said they didn't have any in stock, I could order for the next business day. Do we sense a major yield problem here for the United States - not being able to supply enough dollars for my trip? (I wanted about 50 or so...) /jk

Given how screwed up the US economy is, at this point it wouldn't even surprise me.

 

[silent_guy]

Looks like Qualcomm is having serious yield issues too.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/13/3082481/qualcomm-snapdragon-s4-28nm-shortage-tsmc

 

[Dave Baumann]

I'm not sure why the is there. Yes, that statement can point to a yield issue (or a postitive spin on a yield issues). TSMC has a captive market for 28nm right now and they have no need for excessive cap ex on 28nm production outlay beyond the planned demand from their customers; if their customers are saying there isn't sufficient supply then that mean they didn't plan the demand correctly or they need more wafers than they initially planned on due to yield, or a combination of both.