Nvidia disdain for customers

[Nelsieus]

It's a shame that it has to come to lawsuits in order for enthusiasts to be able to use the products they purchased as intended. I hope the outcome of this is being able to run SLI on p965 and p975 boards.

I'm not an expert on this matter, but if SLI is indeed nVidia's property, is it not their decision to keep it exclusive to their chipsets?

If this is someone complaining that he can't run SLI on his p975, would it be safe to assume this is a little on the frivolous side? (Like I said, I'm not an expert on this matter).

Nelsieus

 

[Farid]

The word from Nvidia is, for now:

It has come to our attention that end-users on the SLI Zone forums have reported an issue with 1080i output in SLI. A bug has been filed on this issue and the software team is investigating it. We have confirmed that 720p and 1080p HDTV modes work with SLI enabled according to our testing and to end user reports. The issue is specific to 1080i HDTV mode only.

The NVIDIA software team will continue to investigate the issue to determine how to resolve it. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused for users with 1080i displays. We’ll provide an update as soon as the software team has more information.

 

[2senile]

But this certainly wasnt an "Nvidia disdain for its customers" issue. This was ChrisRay making an oversight on an issue that I coulda probably had an answer too sooner had I just been more fully aware of the problem. I answer and help with over 30-40 threads a week. Its human on my part to make a mistake here.

If ChrisRay is the ONLY person responsible for passing on reported "issues" with a product to nV i sure hope he is well rewarded. [laugh]

Being serious for a moment tho.

I'm not an expert on this matter, but if SLI is indeed nVidia's property, is it not their decision to keep it exclusive to their chipsets?

Not an expert myself. They are selling their product to operate in "IBM compatible PCs". If somebody will define what an IBM compatible PC is these days I might be able to expand. From what little I've read nV told nobody that their product was not IBM compatible.
If nV make software that makes their Graphics cards work "better" or solely with their own chipsets they could be laying themselves open to a charge of anti-competetive practice

To me, "IBM Compatible" means it will work in any PC. Excluding Apple.



Perhaps "Nvidia disdain for its customers" could be translated to a "business decision"?

 

[Nelsieus]

If nV make software that makes their Graphics cards work "better" or solely with their own chipsets they could be laying themselves open to a charge of anti-competetive practice

But nVidia specifically stated that they would not support SLI on Intel 975X. I don't recall any cheats or secret software that they incorporated to inhibit performance on that chipset, as it was announced it wouldn't be supported in the first place.

Nelsieus

 

[BRiT]

But nVidia specifically stated that they would not support SLI on Intel 975X. I don't recall any cheats or secret software that they incorporated to inhibit performance on that chipset, as it was announced it wouldn't be supported in the first place.

Wrong. No where on the product does it specificly state it must be on Nvidia made motherboards. If you even read the original post on this, you would see all the actions Nvidia has taken to explicitly make it NOT work. Once you reverse all those additional steps and actions of vendor-lock-in, then it works on other chipsets such as the p975 and p965. It worked with older drivers without the lock-in code. Nvidia only states the following in their list of requirements:

In the above product information collateral no where is the phrase “NVIDIA SLI READYâ€￾ this change came later in the game, and the proper information, was never communicated properly during the sales phase, to the potential/prospective customers.

“An NVIDIA SLI system requires a PCI Express motherboard that supports two physical connectors that are capable of having two NVIDIA-based PCI Express graphics cards plugged into them.â€￾

 

[Nelsieus]

Wrong. No where on the product does it specificly state it must be on Nvidia made motherboards. If you even read the original post on this, you would see all the actions Nvidia has taken to explicitly make it NOT work. Once you reverse all those additional steps and actions of vendor-lock-in, then it works on other chipsets such as the p975 and p965. It worked with older drivers without the lock-in code. Nvidia only states the following in their list of requirements:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20051118230455.html

NVIDIA Corp. said Friday that its multi-GPU scalable link interface (SLI) technology is not to be supported by applications based on recently released Intel 975X core-logic, which may not satisfy end-users who would like to have an Intel processor and an Intel chipset in their system in addition to powerful graphics processing capabilities.

Nelsieus

 

[2senile]

explicitly make it NOT work.

Just so. Surely anybody can accept that making a deliberate effort to cripple a product on competing hardware is anti-competetive?

Returning to "IBM Compatible"; when IBM supported their own EISA they did not implement anything to stop or limit competing "standards".

 

[Razor1]

when shit hits the fan it really does hit everything!

I think nV should have been more explicit in thier advertising, it seems that there could be a case against them for the way they advertised SLi.

 

[BRiT]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20051118230455.html

Nelsieus

So they put that announcement on the retail boxes of the video cards? Thanks for playing, try again.

 

[Nelsieus]

So they put that announcement on the retail boxes of the video cards? Thanks for playing, try again.

Since I've never bought an nVidia card, I wouldn't know.

But instead, I can go by what's on their SLIZone website.

Only components that pass NVIDIA SLI certification can be called "NVIDIA SLI Ready." Be sure to look for the NVIDIA SLI Ready logo when buy components for your NVIDIA SLI PC.

So apprently there is a SLI Ready Logo that tells consumers whether or not what they purchase is SLI Ready or not.

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone2_build.html

Then as you look on the "Certified SLi-Ready Motherboard" page, you see only nForce Core logic listed....no Intel.

Then when you visist the FAQ page, you read the following:

Do you have dedicated hardware for NVIDIA SLI technology or is it just software?
Yes. NVIDIA GPUs combined with an NVIDIA nForce® SLI motherboard (which ships with the proprietary NVIDIA SLI connector) are the necessary building blocks for the SLI platform. Dedicated scalability logic in each GPU and a digital interface between GPUs (the SLI connector) enable this logic. In addition, a full software suite of advanced rendering algorithms provide the best image quality.

http://www.slizone.com/page/slizone_faq.html


Nelsieus

(By the way, I wasn't aware we were playing a game. Do I get a prize if I win?)

 

[BRiT]

Then as you look on the "Certified SLi-Ready Motherboard" page, you see only nForce Core logic listed....no Intel.

That's really weird since the SLI platform was first shown and demoed on an all Intel platform (Intel motherboard, chipset, and cpu).

This entire vendor lock-in is a real shame. Is it not enough that one decides to purchase not 1, but 2 Nvidia products? Nope. They require you to purchase at least 3 Nvidia products. I'd like to try out SLI on my next system build, but so far the 680i motherboards have been less than appealing with all their issues and significant price premium in comparison to the Intel 975.

On the other front, even though Nvidia (and EVGA) have issued a Final BIOS to address the SATA corruption issues, many users are still suffering with the same exact issues. Here's the EVGA discussion thread. One user even claims that his SLI no longer works, and the board wont even boot with a second card installed.

 

[neliz]

"SLI Certified" is a load of bullocks offcourse, if it was like that we'd need SLi certified harddisks, memory, SATA cables, a certified 56k modem, certfied CPU and a certified cooler.. a SLi certified Floppy drive, a SLi certified PC Case .. and after 15 months and it still wouldn't output in 1080i

Sli certified powercable, SLi certified keyboard, SLi certified mouse..

it's a f'in hoax (as proven above) if they don't learn soon that promoting their stuff as "only working with OUR list of compatible equipment" they'll soon find their userbase shifting to another cause as the userbase will grasp every chance of claiming a victory against the evil empire is enough to flip sides..

(and yes, I know about the CF certified memory.. and I sighed.. TWIMTBCertified)

 

[Davros]

Chris ray if i bribe you with pictures of naked ladies can you get aliens vs predator working on nvidia cards ?????

 

[Nelsieus]

if they don't learn soon that promoting their stuff as "only working with OUR list of compatible equipment" they'll soon find their userbase shifting to another cause as the userbase will grasp every chance of claiming a victory against the evil empire is enough to flip sides..

I definately don't disagree, but the question is whether or not it's illegial.

nVidia may well be pushing potential customers away by limiting their choices, but is that a risk they have the right to take? The worst case scenario is creating a "fine, if I can't do SLI on my x mobo, then I won't do SLI at all!" and the best case scenario is "I guess if I have to get a SLI mobo for a technology I really want, I guess that's what I got to do."

In other words, from how I see it, the consumer has the ultimate choice that can either screw nVidia's plan up, or prosper them depending on how desirable they produce their own chipsets and SLI technology, thus incentivising quality products / technology.

Nelsieus

 

[Geeforcer]

That's really weird since the SLI platform was first shown and demoed on an all Intel platform (Intel motherboard, chipset, and cpu).

This entire vendor lock-in is a real shame. Is it not enough that one decides to purchase not 1, but 2 Nvidia products? Nope. They require you to purchase at least 3 Nvidia products. I'd like to try out SLI on my next system build, but so far the 680i motherboards have been less than appealing with all their issues and significant price premium in comparison to the Intel 975.

On the other front, even though Nvidia (and EVGA) have issued a Final BIOS to address the SATA corruption issues, many users are still suffering with the same exact issues. Here's the EVGA discussion thread. One user even claims that his SLI no longer works, and the board wont even boot with a second card installed.

I have had the SATA issue with my e680i - in fact I was one of the "lucky" ones who lost their entire hardrive contents (multiple times) due to drive disconect bug in P23 Beta 1 BIOS. IMO people who still have the issue either have a faulty board or another component.

 

[BRiT]

I have had the SATA issue with my e680i - in fact I was one of the "lucky" ones who lost their entire hardrive contents (multiple times) due to drive disconect bug in P23 Beta 1 BIOS. IMO people who still have the issue either have a faulty board or another component.

Which bodes even worse for Nvidia/EVGA. There are more than a handful of users with what must be faulty Nvidia motherboards.

The one user who runs a computer store, Nugzo (?), is going on his 5th board. He tried previous boards before the BIOS 'fix' and RMA'd them for SATA corruption issues. He will try a 5th one on Tuesday when he RMAs the current one. Hopefully his issue will be resolved, but that still leaves numerous other users with faulty hardware. It seems to effect people running RAID more so than non-RAID setups.

This of course says nothing about the users who cant even POST with 2 of their 8800GTX cards plugged in. Each card works perfectly fine if run solo. They also worked fine on previous BIOS revisions.

 

[Tahir2]

Is it broken?
...yes (that takes 5 minutes to test)

I know it's an earlier post but testing hardware properly under lab conditions does not take 5 minutes.
It can take days in fact... PC hardware is a hotch potch mix of different devices made by different manufacturers within different specifications and applied to it is a special sauce which makes it all magically work together.

 

[ChrisRay]

I've been out of town on Holiday Vacation. Right now Nvidia is working on it. Thats the best I can give you as I dont really control anything beyond delivering and coordinating the feedback . They can confirm there is an issue with 1080I but 1080P works fine. So just wait and see at this point.

Chris

 

[Farid]

I've been out of town on Holiday Vacation. Right now Nvidia is working on it. Thats the best I can give you as I dont really control anything beyond delivering and coordinating the feedback . They can confirm there is an issue with 1080I but 1080P works fine. So just wait and see at this point.

Really?

 

[neliz]

Really?

I thought you're going to link to this:

http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=36577

(but that was before I understood your post )