Nvidia closing in on deal to buy ARM *spawn*

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by DegustatoR, Jul 22, 2020.

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  1. Bondrewd

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    Yeah but that's a long decrepit market.
    ARM is moving into server and the upcoming vendor feud that will happen should nV get ARM would throw like 33 wrenches into the cogs of Neoverse machine.

    This fucking sucks because that means AMD just gets to do whatever the hell they want because Intel also sabotaged their roadmaps with 7nm.
     
  2. Bondrewd

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    I guess we'll get what, Zeus and then MTH (which is what, Deimos for Neoverse) in the likes of Graviton and after that is ?????.
     
  3. JasonLD

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    Arm reference server system gaining Nvidia makes them far more relevant x86 alternative. Ampere and Marvell would love to have them.
    AMD has been doing pretty well recently but they are way waaaaay far from having presence on server market to do "whatever the hell they want" lol.
     
  4. Bondrewd

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    No such thing, all current Neoverse SoCs are custom-configured (notice the L3$, or fabric).
    OH NO.
    No they don't.
    That's a bit of an understatement.
    They're already hiking Milan ASPs are we're all like, silently getting in line so they own us.
    What are we going to do, buy ICX?
     
  5. JasonLD

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    Probably will change a bit if Nvidia successfully buys ARM. Nvidia can cook up entire reference system.

    Yeah, they will.

    Profit maximization. AMD isn't exactly swimming on unlimited 7nm supply.
     
  6. Bondrewd

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    Yes but no one really wants it.
    Everyone wants the cheap and really good ARM IP, not a walled in locked down toddler garden nV will inevitably build.
    Naaah.
    Marvell would just insta-axe their server biz.
    Kinda.
    We don't have a choice.
    They do starting Sep, and even more around Jan-Feb next year.
     
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  7. DegustatoR

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    Well, this will be another fun thread to look back to.
     
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  8. Jawed

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  9. xpea

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    It will be a good move for Nvidia. Opportunities are numerous:
    Discontinue Mali IP and replace it by GeForce
    Same with AI and ML IP blocks
    Control Arm v9 and future arch to where they want
    Offer full systems for hyperscalers
    etc

    Of course it will be Nvidia style. Make it look open and fair but close the doors to competition and control the business...
     
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  10. Bondrewd

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    Every fucking time.
    They build their shit themselves, literally the point of OCP as is.
    Which dooms it.
    Everyone was already worried the last time ARM was for sale; this time it's worse.
     
  11. MfA

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    Only Apple has been able to take ARM out of the toddler garden beyond mobile and embedded, so nothing much lost in that case (A64FX doesn't have much relevance, they could have bolted that vector core and memory architecture onto any 64 bit architecture for housekeeping ... ARM is just the maid).

    NVIDIA gives the prospect of disrupting Apple's lead in ARM implementation a bit, if not by their implementation expertise then at least by the GPU becoming much more intimately connected to the CPU and providing an advantage in that respect. At least until Apple feel forced to crawl to NVIDIA for an architecture license which includes the GPU ... which should earn back a lot of NVIDIA's investment.
     
  12. Lurkmass

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    We should be extremely concerned about this move and diverging ISA implementations since none of the ARM vendors are capable of acting like adults. ARM Ltd succeeded in proliferating the ARM architecture because they could be counted on by willingly sharing their work with other vendors but all of this comes under threat with a potential acquisition by Nvidia since it comes in conflict with their philosophy of keeping the work exclusive for themselves ...

    Even Intel could show some bouts of adult behaviour by adopting x86-64, ABM, F16C, and implement some 3DNow! instructions such as PREFETCH/PREFECTHW even thought these technologies were not originally proposed by themselves. AMD also had to put aside their own ego and do the 'right' thing by shelving much of the 3DNow! instruction set and were faced with an incompatible instruction encoding between their own proposed SSE5 and the Intel proposed VEX coding scheme (AVX) but in the end they mostly embraced the latter ...

    AMD or Intel weren't exactly the best of friends but they eventually gave the x86 architecture a politically stable environment while the political arrangement between ARM vendors is a fragile one. Can we realistically expect the same political environment after Nvidia acquires ARM Ltd ?
     
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  13. MfA

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    ARM didn't sell SoCs ... they improved their own implementation to sell core licenses.

    Selling SoCs isn't really NVIDIA's core business either, I don't think architecture licensees will get the source to NVIDIA's GPU crown jewels ... so for companies who want to have their own implementation things will become a bit more awkward as the GPU gets tied more intimately into the CPU. But most companies except for Apple have given up or failed any way, so nothing much lost.

    For the rest ARM core licensees will eventually have to pick a core with NVIDIA GPUs ... oh what a disaster and massive change ...
     
  14. Remij

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    You can be sure Nvidia will make a successful venture out of it.
     
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  15. Bondrewd

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    Why not just like, buy Nuvia and poach some ARM Austin people and be done with it?
    Why even bother doing this shitstorm that throws a gigantic uncertainty wrench into everything ARM not phones?
    They have a perpetual one and can fork the ISA at any moment now.
     
  16. xpea

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    No They can't. ARM is not open source, you can't fork it.
    And Apple perpetual licence is only for Arm v8 ISA but v9 is around the corner...
     
  17. Jawed

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    Can someone explain why Apple would want any new Arm IP, v9 or anything else?
     
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  18. Bondrewd

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    Neither is IMG IP but they did.
    It's Apple.
    v9 is kinda nice assuming you implement it fully-featured.
    You get what, SVE2, transactional mem and some other neat stuff.
     
  19. Jawed

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    Why do you think Apple couldn't do that stuff itself?
     
  20. Bondrewd

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    They'd rather not to and preserve the overall s/w compatability with wider world (assuming stuff like WoA ever kicks off).
    Apple already does kustom ISA stuff like that AMX tumor in A13 and all.
     
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