nVidia becoming so desperate for sales that it reverts to...

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by K.I.L.E.R, May 18, 2003.

  1. Joe DeFuria

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    Actually, I'm against laws that are there to "protect myself." IMO, the government has no place to tell me that I should wear a seat-belt "for my own safety."

    What I will accept, is the government informing me of the possible consequences, at which point I can make my own decision. I am against seat-belt and helmet laws for adults.

    Where things get touchy though, is in two areas:

    1) "Children" can't be expected to actually grasp the consequences and make a decision like that for themselves, so I don't have a problem with laws that force them to wear seat-belts, or helmets "for their own safety."

    2) Sometimes, it can be argued that it's not for the safety of the individual making the decision, but the safety of OTHERS which are not making the decision. "No Cell Phone While Driving" laws fit into this category (as it can be argued for drug abuse, DWI, etc.).

    The Cell Phone Laws are in particular very controversial. I am actually against such laws. However, I can clearly understand the argument that some people really cant talk and drive at the same time, and these people don't just put themselves, but others at risk. The problem is, those same people probably can't work a CD player and drive at the same time....so do we ban radios / CD players in cars as well? How about talking to your buddy in the seat next to you?
     
  2. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    Hey, it's "knowing". :roll:

    EDIT-removed the flame
     
  3. Saem

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    Seatbelts are need for more than just your safety. It stops you from being a missile and going through the windshield and smashing into something or someone else.
     
  4. Chris

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    Hello Joe,

    Normally I would not go so far off topic but because this thread was toast long ago and because I have specific knowledge concerning the seatbelt thing, well, (deep breath) here goes nothing...

    I am a volunteer firefighter and EMS responder in my little burg. In the last year, half of the scenes that I have responded to are MVA’s (motor vehicle accidents). This adds up to about sixty MVAs in the last 12 months.

    I respect and can empathize with your “law infringing on informed personal choice†argument, but not in the case concerning seatbelts. To me, seatbelt laws to me are no different than most of the other traffic laws that we follow (stop signs, yields, right-of-way, center stripes, etc.) because they reach beyond personal choice into the realm of societal betterment. I can but provide the following real example:

    Last summer a mother traveling with four children, ages 8-months, 4 years, 7 years, and 9 years loses control of her vehicle on some gravel spilled upon one of our highways. The car skids with the rear of the vehicle moving away from the driver’s side. When she hit dry pavement again, the deceleration sent her across the vehicle to the passenger side of the front seat (no belt to hold her in the driver’s position). Driverless, the car went into an oncoming lane and was hit head-on by a pickup driven by a father with his 9 and 14 year old sons as passengers. The pickup was in turn, rear-ended by another vehicle with two passengers. This vehicle caromed off of the pickup and rolled along the longitudinal axis twice before coming to rest.

    Out of the ten people involved, two where wearing seatbelts (the folks in the third vehicle that rolled), the infant was in a car-seat but the seat was not restrained. This scene had 22 responders, two helicopters, 4 ambulances, and an unknown number of law enforcement personnel (I did not have time to count).

    All four children ended up on the highway. I am a father of young children myself and I can tell you that my hands are shaking just trying to type these words.

    The four year old died on scene, the 7 and 9 year old both sustained life altering injuries. The infant was saved by the car seat even though the seat was ejected from the vehicle. The mother was crushed by the dashboard and sustained severe chest and head trauma. She survived but is unable to care for her surviving children.

    The passengers in the pickup all sustained broken bones and lacerations but will recover. The belted passengers in the third vehicle that rolled multiple times were treated and released with minor injuries.

    All three vehicle passenger compartments where intact. This is a clear sign that the injuries sustained by the unrestrained passengers would have been much less serious if they had been wearing seat belts.
    If you have read this far, you may be saying: “Yes, Yes… I understand that seatbelts improve safety. What does this have to do with society limiting my choice?â€

    Here are some outcomes from this incident that had an effect upon society:

    3 children are now in foster care, two of whom will need extensive re-habilitation with most costs being bourn by society at large (taxes).
    The mother will need daily nursing care for the remainder of her days via public assistance.
    Damage to infrastructure (power lines, roads, interruption of commerce) costs.
    Societal cost of having 22 EMS/Fire responders and associated gear tied up at one scene and not able to respond to other events.
    Costs of mandatory counseling for those 22 responders (mostly because children where involved). I can tell you that the he-man tough guy/girl fire/ems/police persona goes right out the window when you see children lying on the concrete in pools of their own blood.

    Many of the injuries happened largely because two parents had not established a habit of clipping a little metal tab into a buckle in two separate cases (parent in pickup and parent in car). Not requiring adults to buckle-up has a huge effect upon child safety and children’s own safety habits.

    I have more of these stories if you need more evidence.

    Joe, I do agree with some of your infringement sentiments. However, I feel that the seat-belt, cell-phone, topics are a poor choice of battlefield.

    Regards, Chris.

    Not speaking for beyond3d
     
  5. Sage

    Sage 13 short of a dozen
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    this world needs to hear more non-sugarcoated stories like that. thank you for sharing.
     
  6. Joe DeFuria

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    Hello Chris. Thanks for the story. I do understand where you are coming from, though I'll just have to agree to disagree on seat-belts. Ultimately, there was an accident. You can say the chain of events was "caused" by someone not being buckled in, but I say it was caused by poor road conditions that even if the initial driver was buckled in, may have had the same, or even worse, result. With such force, would the seat-belt have knocked the wind out of her? Severly bruised her ribs?

    I am also a father of 2 small children (1 and 3 years old). I always wear my seatbelt, and always buckle my kids in their seats / boosters. I think anyone who doesn't use them is basically stupid. And as I said, for children (who can't make such decisions for themselves), I am all in favor of such laws.

    To me, seat-belt laws are not the same as other traffic laws (stop-signs, etc.) Stop signs aren't designed to protect the occupant, they are there to protect everyone on the road...so that other driver's actions are predictable.

    Yes, as you illustrated, you can come up with scenarios where a seat-belt possibly could have changed events. What about the times where seat-belts make exiting a car more difficult? Where air-bags deploy improperly and cause their own accidents?

    To be clear, I'm NOT arguing against the use of seat-belts / air-bags. But they are to me, clearly devices for personal protection, and their effectiveness beyond that is demonstrated by hand-picking cases and assuming certain outcomes.

    No, I don't need more stories or evidence, though I'm sure they are all true and equally as depressing. Accidents happen.

    And I do see your reasoning as sincere and a valid view point. We all draw our lines between "saefty" and "infrigement" somewhere, and our lines are just drawn slightly differently.

    Very coincidentally, I heard on the radio this morning, that Connecticut is considering legistlation (has passed legislation?) that would outlaw "all distracting" actions while driving in automobiles....that includes turning a radio dial. :? Haven't seen the legislation myself, so it could be a misrepresentation of it...will have to look into it...
     
  7. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    Joe-

    Had she been wearing her seatbelt, she would've had maybe a bruised rib or two, and she would've retained some vehicle control and could've at least swerved, saving the passengers in the pickup truck from any damage.

    And while you list personal safety as the sole reason for wearing a seatbelt, you also forgot that Chris listed a bunch of side effects from their not wearing seatbelts which could've been avoided:

    Seatbelts are not purely for personal safety.
     
  8. pascal

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    Seatbelts are not good when you are driving with a virgin pornstar :lol:

    Serious, yesterday I was scared to death. I was accelerating more than 120km/h after a light curve when a stopped motorcycle appeared in front of me about 30m :shock: I changed the lane fast, no time/space to stop.

    Thanks God I always wear my seatbelt, we never know what can happen.
     
  9. Morris Ital

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    In regards to the GF FX 5200 series these driver optimisations have very little effect compared to the very wide range of card specs out there.

    For instance, Jo Public buys a new GF FX 5200. Her friend Joe also buys one. Jo gets one with 4ns memory on it and Joe gets one with 6ns memory on it, although to them they have actually bought the same card and therefore expect the same performance. That's a 50% difference.

    this is far more of a cavaet emptor situation for Jo and Joe than a clipping plane or uncleared buffer in my opinion.

    5% or 50%, take your pick.
     
  10. Joe DeFuria

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    Hi Tagrineth,

    Lots of assumptions there. You are assuming that

    1) she wouldv'e gained control,
    2) and beyond that, if she gained control, there would've been LESS consequences / damage.

    When one is in a panic mode, doing the "best course of action" is certainly not the pre-determined outcome. For all we know, she would have jammed on the brakes, fishtailed into oncoming traffic EARLIER, and took out the school bus that was right in front of the pick-up that we don't even know existed because of the course of events that did happen.

    No, I did not forget anything. I am saying that that assuming that "bunch of side effects" would not have happened with a seat-belt is a stretch. I'm also saying that there are other "bad" side-effects that can be imagined because one WORE a seat-belt (or had an air-bag), instead of not using one.

    I disagree.
     
  11. Chris

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    Hello Joe,

    My bad. I did not intend to promote the idea that the accident was caused by the driver not wearing a seat belt although I believe that it could have been a factor. After re-reading my note I can certainly see where you would draw that conclusion.

    This is as far as I could get from a hand picked case.

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/Rpts/2003/809-586.pdf

    Synopsis: 26% of vehicle occupants are unrestrained. This population comprises 59% of fatalities.

    Conclusion: Unrestrained occupants are hurt more severely and hurt more often.

    I realize that you are not disagreeing with the above premise. Were we differ (if I understand correctly) is in the “its not hurting anyone elseâ€￾ proposition.

    I believe that this translates directly into costs that we all pay via workman’s comp, public assistance, welfare, insurance rates, ems, fire, police, etc. and not least of all, the suffering of victims, survivors, and those who try to help them.

    This is the core tenant of my position/opinion.

    I am very happy to hear that you provide a good example for your kids. We are in the same boat (mine are 2 and 4). I know that you do not need or want my approval and I am not trying to patronize. I have read your posts for years and have no doubt that you are a reasonable person.

    Putting away my soapbox.

    Regards, Chris.

    Not speaking for beyond3d
     
  12. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    I know of several people who claim that they would have died if they wore their their seatbelt in some accident they had. I think they're the anomoly rather than the rule. You can come up with all sorts of alternatives but it all boils down to statistics.

    I'm too lazy to look it up, but I am pretty damn certain you'll find that not wearing a seatbelt makes one, statistically, a danger to more people than just the driver, particularly in cases like this story Chris relayed. While in this particular case, she may or may not have been able to regain control, her not wearing a seatbelt ensured she couldn't--taking statistics out of the question.

    Dogs, also, should be buckled up. Flying dogs in quick maneuvering can tip the scales from close call to accident--just ask Stephen King.
     
  13. Joe DeFuria

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    Should we be prevented from changing radio stations in the car?

    Talking to other passengers?

    I'm sure statistically, due to distractions such as those, more people are dead than they otherwise would be.
     
  14. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    Maybe so. However, there's a point of diminishing returns, and universal dislike of the intrusiveness of the requests.

    Seatbelts, in my opinion, are not a point of diminishing return, and the intrusiveness is overwhelmed by the benefit to others.

    That being said, Texas now has a law that limits the number of people under 18 in one car if the driver is less than 18.
     
  15. Joe DeFuria

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    Fair enough. Like I said to Chris, I draw the line at a different place. The "benefit to others" is not at all clear to me.

    Another dumb-ass law.

    On the other hand, I would support a law that banned idiots from driving altogether. (Idiot as defined by me, of course...:))
     
  16. Hyp-X

    Hyp-X Irregular
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  17. Mariner

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    I'll agree that the "Texas law that limits the number of people under 18 in one car if the driver is less than 18" is a bit of a daft law as it could very easily incovenience people with little reason. On the other hand, if you let 15 year olds drive cars, you get all you deserve! (must be 17 in the UK).

    On a more serious note. Exactly how does having to wear a seatbelt inconvenience anyone? It takes a couple of seconds to put on and you barely know it is there. Let's face it, it's not as if you routinely wander around the car when driving. Sitting in the same seat for a while never hurt anyone.*

    (* DVT caused during long-flights excepted)
     
  18. Sage

    Sage 13 short of a dozen
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    there is one small fact that many of you are still forgetting- albeit very rare, wearing a seatbelt can kill you. I know of more than one person who lived because they DIDNT wear their seatbelt.
     
  19. Althornin

    Althornin Senior Lurker
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    personally, sounds like BS to me (that you know more than one person who....blah blah).
    i can see an incredibly rare case where a seatbelt might be detrimental, but this argument is rediculous. It is akin to arguing that you know someone who was drunk and speeding, so they avoided a bridge falling, and so drunk driving is good.
     
  20. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    If you're so afraid of your seatbelt getting stuck and trapping you in the car, keep a small but sturdy knife in a compartment somewhere. =)
     
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