The percentage of motherboards that actually have it included is very small.
NV30- the fan will last how long, we must dust it how often?
- Thread starter g__day
- Start date
- Status
The percentage of motherboards that actually have it included is very small.
There were attempts to define a standard such as this several years ago, but they never got off the ground - I wasn't surprised, and I doubt if this will happen. The purpose of the AGP slot is to provide connectivity 'at the right level' - it's a pity the power requirements of the latest GPU's weren't forseen.Nagorak said:
Dio said:
The standard you're talking about was Socket X. It was developed by Micron Technology and announced in May 1998 with support from Micron Electronics, Rendition and WELLS-CTI.
I agree, I doubt we will see graphics move to this type of standard. However, if GPUs get to the point where they are as programmable as the CPU then they should all be similar in size and complexity. So why not make it a standard? At the least, wouldn't graphics morph into the CPU? Just food for thought.
I also agree about the power requirements. I'm hoping something will be done about this. It's only going to get worse. I doubt AGP Pro is the answer. I remember talking about AGP Pro on Dimension 3D along time ago. Kind of funny it's coming back after a couple of years.
Tommy McClain
If you were designing a box to be a TiVO/ViVo network based video capture/server, you would not bother with expensive 3D chips. You need 2D capture capability, so you'd get an elcheapo AIW card, not a top of the line card.
Shuttle systems are being used for cable setup solutions today. I consulted for a company that was designing one and they were using an SiS chipset and third party capture board. No way would I want to put a R9700 PRO into a LAN box.
powerful 3D chips go into your desktop PC, not your laptop and not your firewall router or video server.
Shuttle systems are being used for cable setup solutions today. I consulted for a company that was designing one and they were using an SiS chipset and third party capture board. No way would I want to put a R9700 PRO into a LAN box.
powerful 3D chips go into your desktop PC, not your laptop and not your firewall router or video server.
AzBat said:I also agree about the power requirements. I'm hoping something will be done about this. It's only going to get worse. I doubt AGP Pro is the answer. I remember talking about AGP Pro on Dimension 3D along time ago. Kind of funny it's coming back after a couple of years.
Tommy McClain
Well I beleive the next step will be 3GIO, or PCI Express as its now known as.
DemoCoder said:
You're actually right about the TiVo/ViVo thing. My own capture computer has an AIW Radeon which was the cheapest AIW available. The video performance just isn't really that important for a capture box. Actually I think the top of the line AIWs are kind of pointless in general because you can buy a separate AIW and top of the line card for less than the two combined. I guess if you absolutely can only have one PC...
As far as lanning goes, I could see putting a R9700 in one of those. I wouldn't personally, but then again I hardly even go to LANs.
Entropy said:
Because if you have a "quiet" computer you obviously have a slow computer, as today's processors cannot run without a massive heatsink/fan. I actually have a very quiet heatsink/fan, but even so I really doubt the NV30s heatsink will be louder than it. IMO for a top of the line card having a larger heatsink is not really a bad thing, nor one that will be out of place the vast majority of those they are aiming for.
Entropy said:
Because the person I was responding to was talking about using a SFF PC as a HOME THEATER BOX on a LAN meaning that it is primarily a box that sits in the corner and serves as a server controlled by a remote access device (IR remote, web service, etc) and is NOT your desktop computer that you use to play games. The Home Theater market doesn't need 3D performance, they need 2D quality capture and playback. A high end video card is completely wasted in such a setup just as it is wasted in a Web Server.
The Shuttle computers are primarily being sold to OEMs using them as set-top box solutions, and to enterprises as small business desktops, not to endusers.
Hard core 3D enthusiasts usually like to upgrade their PC frequently and have it stuffed with features. I don't know any hard core enthusiast who wants one of those tiny cases for their main desktop computer. Hell, many people I know buy large tower cases for their desktop. Just look at the kinds of "high end gaming PCs" you see being sold. None of them are being sold in micro-cases. These SFF pcs are for integrated performance market. They have only 1 PCI slot, can't fit very many HDs, etc. My RAID will be out the window. Can't fit my Audigy Line Drive + DVD Burner + CDROM. Wireless card? Opps.
I mean, you seem to be talking enthusiastically about these, do you own one as your desktop currently? And if so, why haven't you bought one?
This thread just seems to be searching hard for reasons and scenarios to rag on Nvidia. IMHO, if someone's buying a Shuttle system and they are not using the integrated video, chances are, they're going to stuff a Radeon 9500 or NV31 into it, or godforbid, a GeForce4 MX.
Certainly, they aren't going to put a $400 card into a PC that sits in a closet serving up video to your home theater.
Well, officially, the Shuttle SG51 won't take a R9700, as the power supply is only 200W. Actually, it does worktamattack said:
but I need that card for work so I put a R9000 in instead Since the main thing I use it for is playing Warcraft III when t'other half is watching Eastenders I definitely need decent 3D
DemoCoder said:
Currently at home, I have two (soon one) iMacs and a classical PC-box with a 21-inch Sony + extra monitor. The iMacs are SmallFormFactor computers but the concept is taken further by making a complete system that actually takes advantage of the limitations rather than just omitting, as most small PC boxes do. Shuttle is getting better though. I would much prefer to get rid of that hulking PC box, and exchange it for something more discreet, yes, although I would still like to have it on the floor.
I have absolutely no romantic attachment to bulky boxes.
Particularly if they are noisy. I have spent a fair amount of money and effort to make my PC quiet, and I believe it is as quiet as it can be made. It still doesn't come close to either of the iMacs.
The PC form factor is an anachronism. The PC market is fond of such traditions since it keeps prices at the rock bottom, but why anyone would actually be in favour of this for its own sake is beyond me.
I had used computers for a couple of years when we got the first departmental computer, a PDP-8, (soon upgraded to a PDP-11). Having such direct access to your computer was very nice, in spite of the compromises in performance. The extension of this development is the laptop, not stationary boxes. Boxes are somewhat cheaper, define a workspace, and are more awkward to steal, so they will continue to have a role to play in offices and public places. But for personal use, the major advantages stationaries have are expandability and big screens.
Shuttles small form factor computers retain the advantages of the bigger boxes, except expandability. If you don't need that expandability....
Entropy
PS: Ironically the CRT will probably go before the 20 year old enclosure form factor of PCs. Even though CRTs are still vastly superior to TFTs in important aspects, most people can see that its days are numbered. Big boxy enclosures hang on for much weaker reasons. Mainly ignorance, I'd say. Most people simply don't know there are alternatives, and Dell doesn't offer them. People who care strongly enough buy desknotes instead.
Entropy said:
The space limitations in laptops restrict the size and ammount of hardware you can have, as well as the performance of the hardware it does have, due to the restricted heat dissipation. Performance is reduced because of the size restrictions themselves as well as the heat dissipation problems the confined space creates. For example, most laptop hard drives are only 5400 RPMs, and they don't have the capacity that 3.5" desktop drives have.
And don't forget about the 5.1 surround sound speakers and a full size keyboard (yes, you can add these to laptops, but at that point you're starting to defeat the purpose of having a laptop). Oh, and your printer will still take up space.
It's a very interesting point. For work, I prefer a big monitor, because a big TFT suffers from boulder-sized pixels - although once they sort out DVI and get 1600x1200 flat panels that would help - and incredible sharpness that makes text just plain hard to read. The web is by far the worst offender here - most web sites use fonts that look terrible on TFT-with-DVI, while the system fonts in Windows are all far more readable. In contrast for gaming the TFT is superb even though it's only got 40ms response (I'm sure some quake-heads would probably be more picky).Entropy said:
Mostly true, although I'd argue that only very recently has the 3D performance of a desknote come up to the point where it's actually useful, plus to get a comparable system you pay twice as much - while the premium for a SFF case is less than a hundred quid (and could be much less if the volume ramps).Entropy said:
- Status