Both have a lot of coverage over here (Netherlands), the Wii wins though. Meanwhile there are almost no 360 commercials at all.
NPD October 2007
- Thread starter RobertR1
- Start date
Both have a lot of coverage over here (Netherlands), the Wii wins though. Meanwhile there are almost no 360 commercials at all.
You misunderstood me. Many of Wii's (and DS's) customers may not even be casual gamers of the last gen.
Also in last gen, some casuals bought DDR for PS1 and PS2, some bought it just for EyeToy, some bought it for FF8 and became more involved, some just bought any game console just because they need them as Christmas gifts (These are all real casual gamer friends). When the price is right and the concept is fun and interesting, I don't see why the casuals will behave differently this time round.
This gen, I actually like PS Eye (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/11/14/video-of-new-research-conducted-with-playstation-eye/), Playstation Home and Game 3.0 (LBP) quite a bit. Showed them to the same casuals who bought the above games, and they are pretty excited too.
Once the price comes down enough, I believe the future is still in the hands of fast and creative game developers.
Readykilowatt
Regular
I will step in and out of this thread with a simple analogy...
PS2 = VHS
PS3 = D-VHS
Wii = DVD
The mass market has made its decision.
PS2 = VHS
PS3 = D-VHS
Wii = DVD
The mass market has made its decision.
XBOX 360 = ?
This is a clear difference between where MS and Sony stand in Europe vs. the US.
Microsoft have achieved much better parity with the XBOX brand in the US to the Playstation and Nintendo brands. They were able to successfully build on what they achieved with the XBOX (mostly thanks to Halo) with their early launch, effective marketing, and their series of impressive titles over the last two years. This has resulted in the system being adopted by the "taste makers" in our society, especially for the demographic that has been the most lucrative for the gaming industry in the past. When some 14-24 year old is watching MTV's "Cribs" or the current FOTM reality show and they see their favorite personality playing an XBOX 360 it is as good as or better marketing than any MS PR campaign. Of course this last could be the result of marketing efforts, too.
I'm assuming this hasn't happened in the other territories. At least in Japan it doesn't seem to be for lack of trying, but maybe with their newly stated European focus and enough resources being given to the recently established MGS Europe they can begin to make some inroads there.
If this is true, then Nintendo has successfully persuaded late-adopters to become relatively early adopters at a $100 premium. I don't think the market dynamics of technology adoption work like that.
I think the late adopters who bought PS2s at sub 150 near the end of the last generation will buy a game console at or near sub-150 near the end of this generation.
I think the Wii is doing something a little different. Yes, it appeals to casual gamers, but it is appealing to the market as a whole enough to sell significantly higher numbers more quickly, at a price of $250.
quest55720
Regular
You need to look at what each includes. The 149 PS2 was just a system and controller. You had to purchase a game and memory card. This brings the cost to around 219 dollars. The Wii comes with a killer app and internal storage. When you compare 219 to 249 the cost is not that much different. Also I think casuals do see a lot of extra value of the motion controller. Instead of just a machine for the kids it is the new family game night machine because of Wii sports.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Funny you say that because today i've must have seen that new 350 euro pack commercial atleast 3 times. It also depends a bit on the channel you watch I think. You have alot of Wii commercials on Discovery but you dont really see them that much on the other channels as far as i've noticed atleast.
I don't think that the idea that "casuals don't care about backwards compatibility" is actually particularly meritous.
There are huge advantages to backwards compatibility, and many of them compare neatly to the traditionally "casual" crowd. For starters, if you never owned a PS2, then b/c enables you to play a large library of inexpensive games as soon as you buy the console. I never owned a PS2, however, after buying a PS3, I have purchased 6 PS2 games, but only 1 PS3 game. Why? Because they're still great games, and they're way cheaper than PS3 fare that is, in many instances, inferior in quality.
While B/C isn't necessarily a system-seller... saying that it has no impact on the buying decisions of *informed* casual gamers seems silly. Obviously, many casual gamers don't care because they don't know. That is different from saying that they know and don't care, which is what the argument so frequently throwing around implies.
But are you a casual? I think it is very advantageous for those that have many PS2 games or care about PS2 games still. But casuals that buy a PS3 or a 360 in general probably buy it because it is "the next gen and has prettier and better games". The type of casuals that are going to buy PS2 games for their PS3 could be pretty narrow. Like a younger audience. Also I think BC has is a psychological factor too. People generally would prefer owning a PS3 that can play PS2 games than one that can not.
I certainly am *not* casual. However, looking at the contents of this thread, the casual market *isn't* typically going for the "prettier and better games." See previous comments in this thread about Singstar, Wii Sports, etc. It doesn't matter *what* console these things are on, only that they exist.
PS2 was huge with the DDR crowd not because they cared about PS2 games, or because there were more PS2 DDR's than XBox DDR's (there weren't), but because you could play about a dozen of them when you considered the import ant PS1 library (arcade machine integration probably didn't hurt either, but who's counting?). Obviously that's a bit of a niche market, but it's a great example of the power of backwards compatibility.
There are different types of casuals. There are those that like a certain group of games such us the ones you mentioned and those that are attracted to the image of "next gen" consoles. Casuals that love Wii sports, Singstar and the likes arent going to buy a PS3 and play PS2 games on it. PS2 games are becoming less relevant. Those will opt directly for specific "casual" oriented PS3 games (not PS2) like PS3's Singstar or opt for Wii. Those casuals that were attracted to the PS3 and want to play PS2 games on it could be very very few.
When I say "prettier and better games" these could be mediocre for us non-casuals. They may not buy games such as Gears of War, Uncharted, Gran Turismo or Mass Effect like us. But still for these casuals the next XBOX or PS are supposed to be better than the old ones they owned or played before.
Besides PS2 games may be cheaper but they dont different much from what we are getting on the PS3 or 360. They are typically the same in essence, just old gen. Wii is the console that has the most different experience. If a casual wants to play PS2 games like PS2's DDR or Singstar they will buy a PS2 instead or remain with their old console. They wont pay $400 just to play one or two old specific PS2 games. And if they do they will buy 1 very specific PS2 game or two, which are extremely low numbers still. The BC will remain in general pretty much untouched. The majority of other PS2 games are shoot em ups, platform games, racing games, sports games etc which are typically found on 360 or PS3. Casuals that loved these will prefer their next gen versions. It wont take much time until people forget PS2 games completely and focus on their next gen iterations.
I dont feel that BC is a strong casual market mover. When the type of casual you mentioned (that has noarrow game preferences) sees a price tag of $400 he automatically sees no much reason to pay for a next gen console. Why pay that much for a couple of games (or PS2 games)? He might go for the PS2 or Wii instead. PS3 will mostly attract these people when price goes further down and more games such as DDR and Singstar are released on it.
The others are attracted to the idea of BC or to the fact that they can play their PS2 library on it
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Yesterday I saw my first PS3 ad for R&C on Television. But Nintendo still do allot (a whole lot) more advertising then Sony here in Belgium.
Before a program starts Wii advertisment, after a break Wii advertisment, ... . There is at the moment 4 ads (general, MP3, SMG and brain academy) running on television.
The Wii is doing well here but it's not so that they fly from the shells. I can walk in any store an buy a wii voor about 200€ (launchprice was 250€) , 220€ if I want an extra game with it (raving rabbits - mediamarket)
Analysis on next-gen.biz commented on by the author on neogaf.com ...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209615
Over here (in the Netherlands) it's the 360/Microsoft that I'm seeing getting the most advertising, though mostly through radio promotions (win a 360, win Halo 3, win Gears of War for PC). I did see one commercial for the PS3 though briefly, but I don't watch a lot of TV / commercials lately (movie channel pay-tv doesn't have commercials)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209615
Over here (in the Netherlands) it's the 360/Microsoft that I'm seeing getting the most advertising, though mostly through radio promotions (win a 360, win Halo 3, win Gears of War for PC). I did see one commercial for the PS3 though briefly, but I don't watch a lot of TV / commercials lately (movie channel pay-tv doesn't have commercials)
Nah. On normal TV it's PS3 ("New Price!") and Wii all over the place. No 360 at all.
Seconded. This has been the case since summer over here by the way...
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That's a good point - the bundling of Wii Sports (at least here in the US) was a very good move on Nintendo's part. At the same time, I suspect that most purchasers of the Wii are also purchasing an extra controller (see sales of Wii Play, for one). That brings the effective cost of the console to 290 or 300. More, if they purchase a 2nd nunchuck.
I think this goes to the heart of the question - is the Wii sufficiently different or not? If the Wii is seen mainly as a substitute / replacement for the PS2, then it's fair to speculate that 70% of Wii owners are those who purchased PS2's at the end of the last generation. If the Wii is seen as a different kind of machine, then it is less likely that Wii owners are simply the late adopters of the last generation.
The other aspect of my earlier post is that, in my opinion, people do not change their market adoption patterns. A late adopter at a particular price point typically remains a late adopter at that price point. I think people who are purchasing the Wii now, frequently in higher priced bundles (how many US retailers are selling just the Wii by itself?), and driving demand in auctions to prices well above retail, are not those sub 150 price late adopters.
I don't think the manufacturers look at BC mainly as a means to drive sales of consoles - I think they see it as an additional revenue stream once those consoles are sold. For example, Nintendo's VC serves as a way to re-sell old software to Wii owners - some of whom may already own the older console and the older game, but are willing to pay $5 - $10 for the convenience of playing it on the Wii. Same with the direction of MS Live.
Having said that, keep in mind that markets drive transactions until marginal value = marginal cost. BC may not be sufficient in itself to justify a $400 purchase. However, there is a subset of consumers (size is debatable) who may be willing to spend $400 - x on a PS3 without BC. If, to them, the marginal value of BC is greater than x, then they will purchase the PS3 with BC.
At the same time, Sony is making some similar calculations with respect to the marginal value (in terms of increased market share) of PS3 with BC, and the marginal cost of manufacturing PS3 with BC. I phrase the value in terms of increased market share because, for the moment, the actual marginal revenue of an additional PS3 sale is negative.
Just heard the 360 sound on TV.
Turns out they aired one of those new 'mobile living room' commercials over here...
hm... last night I saw Assassin's Creed's commercial... Only the 360 was mentioned.
I've seen one with only PS3 mentioned. Weird shit!
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