NPD November 2004

cthellis42 said:
I know a number of my brother's contemporaries who'd normally do nothing but make fun of video gaming in general, but got amazingly excited the first time they saw Karaoke Revolution and had to go out and buy PS2's almost immediately.
Lol, that was me five years ago. I bought a PS1 specifically for DDR.

How many totally new console buyers came out of the woodwork with EyeToy?
A lot, it seems. ;)
[url=http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=2483 said:
Gamesindustry.biz[/url]]The game has massive appeal outside of the traditional gaming demographic, and sales of PS2 and EyeToy bundles have been brisk - suggesting that many people are picking up the console purely for the EyeToy experience.
[url=http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=ret&aid=2733 said:
Gamesindustry.biz[/url]]Eye Toy: Play has now shipped over two million units across Europe since its debut in July

jvd said:
I've seen 8 adds on tv for the ps2 and or ps2 games today. I've only watched 2 hours of tv though. There is still a ton of hype.
So, the only reason PS2 sells as well as it does is because it puts 8 ads on TV every two hours? If Xbox or GC had the same "hype", would you say that they would sell as well as PS2? And if you think they would, why don't MS and Nintendo take a hint and saturate TV with ads as well?
 
So, the only reason PS2 sells as well as it does is because it puts 8 ads on TV every two hours? If Xbox or GC had the same "hype", would you say that they would sell as well as PS2? And if you think they would, why don't MS and Nintendo take a hint and saturate TV with ads as well?

No thats what continues to keep the hype alive. Heavy advertising as the it thing to have . Most of the comercials I have seen show the ps2 and then about 8 or 9 diffrent games through out the comercial. Sony has thrown a massive amount of hype at the console which has never ended. The xbox hype was all over the place for a time but has died down. Nintendo never had much hype and is now just starting to make hype for itself . But comercials do make hype . Which is needed for almost anything to sell
 
jvd said:
So, the only reason PS2 sells as well as it does is because it puts 8 ads on TV every two hours? If Xbox or GC had the same "hype", would you say that they would sell as well as PS2? And if you think they would, why don't MS and Nintendo take a hint and saturate TV with ads as well?

No thats what continues to keep the hype alive. Heavy advertising as the it thing to have . Most of the comercials I have seen show the ps2 and then about 8 or 9 diffrent games through out the comercial. Sony has thrown a massive amount of hype at the console which has never ended. The xbox hype was all over the place for a time but has died down. Nintendo never had much hype and is now just starting to make hype for itself . But comercials do make hype . Which is needed for almost anything to sell

I don´t think the experience of just one particular person is enough for such an explanation. I´ve heard plenty of similar stories, but just replacing PS2 with GCN or Xbox. Commercials are not enough to keep hype strong either, IMO, because the kind of "hype" PS2 might have now, is much different than the one that existed at launch. I think those sales represent the trust in the Sony brand and that consumers are after the biggest diversity of content, rather than "the coolest, newest thing around".
 
jvd said:
I've seen 8 adds on tv for the ps2 and or ps2 games today. I've only watched 2 hours of tv though. There is still a ton of hype.

It's holiday season. The advertising has shot up for everyone. I see plenty more Xbox commercials than I'd normally do, and plenty more for Nintendo as well. (Which is good, since I rarely saw anything from them except a few around the release of a major 1st-party title for a while.) Meanwhile, you'd kinda be hard-pressed to count game commercials as "hype" or else nearly everything we buy in life is an "overhyped product."

There are very few times on few networks where you see that kind of video game promotion anyway, but if that's your watching habit, c'est la vie. I watch a lot on a variety of channels, and so far SOCOM II commercials have a slight lead over PGR2 ones (both leaning on their online/headset components), but Soul Calibur 2 commercials are still the most visable--and it's a tri-platform title with tri-platform commercials.

Playstation is the most recognizable brand and has more mindshare and a bit more visability overall (depends where. EB and other gaming boutiques seem damn near bought out by Xbox's marketing budget), but gamers follow the games and their habits, and new buyers are brought in mainly with individual games and new concepts--and overall the Playstation brand keeps pushing outwards in those directions. (Or at least developers are attracted to its larger consumer base and wider range and consider it a safer starting platform. Or the one most beneficial to go proprietary on.)

Microsoft enjoys market dominance of a scale much higher in PC-land... they maintain that only by "hype" as well? It's a dumb word to lean on, and not at all the proper one when products move well past their introduction stages and are involve many, MANY other factors of the marketplace.
 
The Xbox has kept me most interested by delivering more sophisticated console experiences. The interactivity of game worlds is bumped up a few notches with a title like Morrowind, due to, in no small part, being designed for hardware with an ease for tracking everything down to their smallest state changes. New aspects can emerge from game worlds like these, constructs like a player-influenced economy as the shopkeepers are able to maintain stock of every single item you've ever sold them. And upcoming titles like Fable and B.C. will expand upon your influence over the game world's social and ecological systems, respectively.

BLiNX enabled some crafty manipulations of time, like getting to fight alongside your own self by having a record of your previous actions play and overlay with you. Franchise Mode in World Series Baseball allows you to analyze your team's performance to an absurd depth when strategizing - a big plus for sports nuts. Even the incredible exploitations of the Halo maps, like the Warthog jumping, are enabled by the capability of the hardware.
 
Not talking about stretching genres here--that happens all the time at its usual pace. The Xbox brings in more PC developers and PC-originating thought to the console arena than it would get otherwise, but being somewhat more attractive to PC gamers doesn't really add to the user-base a whole lot, as they're already well versed in video gaming and pursuing what they like. I'm talking genre-defying, or genre-creating, or just plain unique and new gaming experiences in general.

Pokemon brought in a lot of first-time gamers to Nintendo (console and handheld), but in the way most licenses do. (SWG bringing SW fans to MMORPGs, for instance.) Things like Konami's music title, however, appeals to different sets of people--music lovers, dance lovers, and even just "trendies"--bring folks who wouldn't really have thought about it into the realm, bringing about incidental runoff. ("Well, since I already own a Playstation and video gaming ISN'T just for dorks, I might as well see what other things are out there that sound interesting...") The EyeToy would have been an extremely successful product on its own and appealing to people just for what it is and who may not have any connection to console-playing previously, but because it's connected to the PS2 it adds to the capabilities, broadens the landscape, and brings in more people who talk about it in more facets of life.

Sega brought more edge and "attitude" to gaming, after yeards of Atari and Nintendo's methods of running. The PS1 expanded on that even more, widening the scope and maturity and age-focus for consoling. The PS2 continues moreso, though at this point gamers are much older and the "mature concepts" don't need reinforcing--but appealing to those not normally associated with gaming does. Whether they are consciously nuturing it or it happens to them incidentally beacause of their market position, it is still a major factor in their continual high sales, broad appeal, and market presence.
 
And also, WRT this "mature" thing... i'm no kid, i've been playing games since the days of "before the Commodore64"... Well, i've tried the GTA3 thing, the so called "mature" games, and i must say i'd take the epicness, atmosphere, fantasy and downright FUN of games like Kingdom Hearts, ICO, ZOE, FF games and all...

Call me a big kid... ;)
 
Certainly, that's your gaming preference, and everyone has those. (And you've been a video gamer since the beginning.) But just as certainly high-profile, "mature-themed," and confrontational titles like GTA3 attract those who never thought much about console gaming before, and ended up hopping on board.
 
Currently, we're seeing gaming from many different sources innovate to appeal to wider audiences. SEGA's DreamEye camera and the aforementioned EyeToy expand interaction possibilities. Xbox Live's structure for community building fosters a more social experience. Dance/rhythm music titles cross gaming with other interests, and the Xbox Music Mixer with karaoke and video functionality serves as a fun tool. In the arcades, SEGA's popular World Club Champion Football Serie A 2001-2002 and Initial D games implement card readers and cross card collecting/trading and stat building with videogames... the company's simulators, games like Airline Pilots and specifically the deluxe version of F355, grab wannabe race drivers by offering them a detailed, multi-page print-out analysis of their driving. And it's actually Microsoft which has expanded videogaming to its broadest reach of all with Solitaire and Mindsweeper for Windows, usage of which is an unparalleled phenomenon in this modern PC culture across all user demographics.

I do feel that, with Xbox's unique capabilities among consoles, Microsoft is pushing the scope of gaming's appeal. The game worlds of offerings like Morrowind, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and the forthcoming B.C. are highly engaging and are beginning to feel less gimmicky/"videogamey" than anything that's come before - key to being accepted beyond just action junkies and the hardcore.

london-boy:
Well, i've tried the GTA3 thing, the so called "mature" games,
Themes and content-wise, GTA3 could be said to be "mature", but it's not so much so from the standpoint of design sophistication. It really doesn't present the kind of sophisticated world and appeal that a title like Morrowind does. While both offer emergent play possibilities, your influence over the GTA world and its reactiveness to you is comparatively limited and more gimmicky by nature... heck, even Crazy Taxi retains the traffic accidents and traffic pattern disruptions you cause further than the two-block-or-so radius of the GTA world.
i must say i'd take the epicness, atmosphere, fantasy and downright FUN of games like Kingdom Hearts, ICO, ZOE, FF games and all...

Call me a big kid...
I've enjoyed nothing quite as much as exploring the workings of these fantasy worlds and really working them over. The scope of the adventure you can take through the Star Wars universe, for example, in a game like Knights of the Old Republic is so much more epic from the numerous choices you can make to influence things and the ways the world will react to you. Having your actions tracked at detailed levels so the world can take shape around your influence is far more involving than clearing a relatively linear set of checkpoints.
 
Lazy8s said:
I do feel that, with Xbox's unique capabilities among consoles, Microsoft is pushing the scope of gaming's appeal. The game worlds of offerings like Morrowind, Deus Ex: Invisible War, and the forthcoming B.C. are highly engaging and are beginning to feel less gimmicky/"videogamey" than anything that's come before - key to being accepted beyond just action junkies and the hardcore.

I already mentioned the cross-sectional PC-gamer appeal, and that's all such titles are (because that's EXACTLY where they grew out of, or heck, were launched first)--bringing more PC gamers and developers into the mix. Of course while many PC video gamers may prefer PC gaming, I know damn few who don't already have consoles and keep track of the console end--they are already heavily involved in video gaming in general.

Convergence is, of course, a natural extension and one we've been seeing more and more of for years. (And mostly from PC to console, since consoles are on the whole a lot more lucrative.) Online gaming another natural extension and on a decidedly slow boil since the Dreamcast. We see different takes and different concentrations from the developers, but it is nowhere near the "way of life" it is on PC's (the FPS and RTS being very dominant genres there, and considered fairly crippled without an online multiplayer component) , and no particular console is in a "unique position"--just offering different takes.

And no, solitaire games and computer/web-based card games do NOT translate very well to consoles... yet. ;) I believe they're still bigger even still, but not looking to make a transition from mouse and monitor to couch and controller. (It costs them nothing extra and is where they've been comfortable playing, and until consoles offer online gambling through their services they won't capture the people hooked on THAT either.) There are plenty of random card/tile games, actually, just mainly not in our markets. (Japan being much smaller on computer gaming, it slots in there better, even in their arcades.) Tapping those people WOULD be good, but I don't see anything able to bring them over just for that.

Themes and content-wise, GTA3 could be said to be "mature", but it's not so much so from the standpoint of design sophistication.

Themes and content being much more visable and "enjoyable" as it were to the general gamer, who is not really looking to invest a lot of time or effort, and doesn't really notice or appreciate in-depth design features. It is indeed not at all stretching the features of gaming, but broadening the appeal to those it wouldn't have before. Upping the mature theme attracts attention (and hopefully media attention which makes for better advertising than they could possibly throw out themselves) and brings in new, curious folk as well as making for a "must have" game that brings a platform more popularity through it. Depending on the "what" and "where," mature themes can fall flat (Kingpin attracted attention on the PC, but in general was just an unexciting FPS--with swears) and that's where design importance comes into play--but on consoles, where the audience is bigger and less sophisticated anyway, simple designs come more as an attraction than a detriment. Gamers used to more can still just "kick back and have fun," while a game is made easy to pick up and play by the younger audience, those new to video gaming, frat boys sitting around getting drunk all the while, and most others you can think of. :p ;)
 
Magnum PI said:
these days i saw a lot more ads for xbox that for another console.
it sure depends of where you live.

I see mostly GameCube commercials and some CGI footage ad junk from EA on my telly.
 
jvd said:
So, the only reason PS2 sells as well as it does is because it puts 8 ads on TV every two hours? If Xbox or GC had the same "hype", would you say that they would sell as well as PS2? And if you think they would, why don't MS and Nintendo take a hint and saturate TV with ads as well?

No thats what continues to keep the hype alive. Heavy advertising as the it thing to have . Most of the comercials I have seen show the ps2 and then about 8 or 9 diffrent games through out the comercial. Sony has thrown a massive amount of hype at the console which has never ended. The xbox hype was all over the place for a time but has died down. Nintendo never had much hype and is now just starting to make hype for itself . But comercials do make hype . Which is needed for almost anything to sell

If hype is needed for almost anything to sell, than why did MS allow the hype to die down?

And would you say that the reason PS2 at 60 million and still outselling 3:1 has nothing to do with a better game library, and add-ons like the Eyetoy? Yes/No?
 
nondescript said:
jvd said:
So, the only reason PS2 sells as well as it does is because it puts 8 ads on TV every two hours? If Xbox or GC had the same "hype", would you say that they would sell as well as PS2? And if you think they would, why don't MS and Nintendo take a hint and saturate TV with ads as well?

No thats what continues to keep the hype alive. Heavy advertising as the it thing to have . Most of the comercials I have seen show the ps2 and then about 8 or 9 diffrent games through out the comercial. Sony has thrown a massive amount of hype at the console which has never ended. The xbox hype was all over the place for a time but has died down. Nintendo never had much hype and is now just starting to make hype for itself . But comercials do make hype . Which is needed for almost anything to sell

If hype is needed for almost anything to sell, than why did MS allow the hype to die down?

And would you say that the reason PS2 at 60 million and still outselling 3:1 has nothing to do with a better game library, and add-ons like the Eyetoy? Yes/No?

Because ms came in to late. They have a moderate amount of hype but even the 500 million at launch wasn't enough to match the hype sony had been making since before the dc came out.

Second whats a better game library ? More games doesn't not equal better. Because when it all comes down to it all three systems have about (give or take 5) must have tittles. So if you consider having 5 more must have tittles over xbox or gamecube a better library then yea. That helps.

Of course the casual consumer wouldn't know a great game if it hit them in the head. Ever see how much the crap called gta 3 sells ?
 
jvd said:
Because ms came in to late. They have a moderate amount of hype but even the 500 million at launch wasn't enough to match the hype sony had been making since before the dc came out.

Second whats a better game library ? More games doesn't not equal better. Because when it all comes down to it all three systems have about (give or take 5) must have tittles. So if you consider having 5 more must have tittles over xbox or gamecube a better library then yea. That helps.

Of course the casual consumer wouldn't know a great game if it hit them in the head. Ever see how much the crap called gta 3 sells ?

Hurray. Answer the questions, please:

nondescript said:
If hype is needed for almost anything to sell, than why did MS allow the hype to die down?
Currently unanswered. (EDIT: Remember, you just said that Xbox had a lot of hype in the beginning)

nondescript said:
And would you say that the reason PS2 at 60 million and still outselling 3:1 has nothing to do with a better game library, and add-ons like the Eyetoy? Yes/No?
Yes or No? No, it has nothing to do with these things or yes, it has something, even if it just one speck.
 
jvd said:
Second whats a better game library ? More games doesn't not equal better.

Well nothing equals "better" to an individual's tastes, but more people buying more games seems to me to point to there being more that they want. (Whether it be "must have" or "want to have" or "a lot of fun but ultimately nothing momentous.")

Meanwhile, I don't even know what commercial you're referring to--I haven't seen a console-only one in quite some time, just wrapped around games. (Though at least the quality has gone up.) There's a funny-ass SOCOM II one, the amusing Soul Calibur and Mario Kart ones, some PGR2, some Price of Persia, lots of Call of Duty ones ('couse that's PC only), and an overplayed-to-all-hell Spyhunter 2 one. I used to see some as simply platform advertisements, but none for PS2 in a while, and the Xbox Live one died out, and they're always drowned out by game advertising--as always. (Well, except right around console launches.) One would be hard-pressed to call this "hype" as opposed to "business as usual" in a video game industry that keeps growing bigger.

Of course the casual consumer wouldn't know a great game if it hit them in the head. Ever see how much the crap called gta 3 sells ?

Well that is, of course, true. ;) Bearing in mind that you don't have to be unique, genre-breaking, or have challenging gameplay to be "great" to people--just fun. And of course the more people having "fun" with something, the more it's aimed to the lowest common denominator--also as usual.
 
Evil_Cloud said:
Magnum PI said:
these days i saw a lot more ads for xbox that for another console.
it sure depends of where you live.

I see mostly GameCube commercials and some CGI footage ad junk from EA on my telly.

where do you live ? i'm in france. i see LOTS of ads for PGR2, "play together" xbox live campaign..
 
It seems Xbox had a terrible holiday in Europe, much worse than expected

Looking at what is happening in France
- no xbox games were in the top this month (and only one GC game)
- they are starting a new bundle today (Xbox+Halo+MM3+Top Spin+PGR2) for 219E (tax included) )
 
wazoo said:
It seems Xbox had a terrible holiday in Europe, much worse than expected

Looking at what is happening in France
- no xbox games were in the top this month (and only one GC game)
- they are starting a new bundle today (Xbox+Halo+MM3+Top Spin+PGR2) for 219E (tax included) )

It is really getting ridiculous with all the Xbox bundles, maybe they just should start dropping the price of the console itself instead of waiting for Sony to make a move...
 
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