On the other hand the two user bases are about the same size... so it -could- be better. And anyway, shifty's point is that most of that 4 pieces of software per Wii are from Nintendo and not from third parties
That would be one of my main contentions. Not every big, or even average, seller on other platforms has had to be "Halo 3" quality as Natoma put it to get great sales. Just look at some of the 360 games that broke 1M: the two NFS, CoD3, Saint's Row, Dead Rising, and Splinter Cell: Double Agent. None are
bad games, but none are
exceptional either.
I don't see why this is even surprising though. I can quote a lot of users here talking up how Wii has broadened the market, appealed to new consumers like older people who have never gamed, etc... sound familiar? Why should we expect these sort of consumers to buy in traditional patterns? If they are not "gamers" proper, why would we expect them to even buy in traditional intervals and quantities?
Obviously this is a problem for developers. They have geared up to make next gen games on a proven "tried and true" path in regards to input mechanics as well as what appeals to the 150M established gaming consumers. After I put 3 years, 20M into a title like CoD4 which has a large install base who want what it offers (intense SP, online MP, traditional FPS experience) and then are told you have to choose: the 1 bird in hand /or/ the two in the bush... but you have to castrate the visuals and AI, totally rethink all your refined gameplay mechanics and input, and then hope it resonates with these newer consumers as well as compete with Nintendo on their own turf (instead of the PS3/360 which are basically the evolutionary path of the industry). That is a big gamble, and all bets are off.
If you promise to stop posting so much after you get a next gen console, I'd chip in some cash for one
hehe
What, 4 months of like no posting wasn't enough
Sorry, but that's just more spin. The fact is, aside from a handful of exceptions(ubisoft), 3rd party software is NOT selling well on Wii. It's decent attach rate comes almost entirely from 1st party titles, whereas with Xbox360 the majority of it's software attach is generated by 3rd party sales.
This is a key differentiator, not to be swept under the rug or ignored. It will be absolutely a key factor in influencing publishers.
I agree. It isn't easy enough to have a high attach rate, but 3rd parties need a share in the stake.
And I will be as bold to say, as a longtime Nintendo consumer, the arguement that, "The Wii 3rd party games have been horrible" is a scapegoat and spin. The same issue applied to the N64 and GCN in general, relative to the market and what 3rd parties were able to do with the same software on those other platforms. We can use examples that make us cry -- like crapware being ported and then 3rd parties upset -- but the truth is far from that.
There is a reason that Nintendo was lending their own IPs, like Mario and Link, to companies like Namco (SC) and EA (NBA Street) to help bolster 3rd party sales. 3rd party software that sells on other platforms hasn't traditionally done well on Nintendo's platforms,
in general relative (i.e. there are exceptions to the trend, but there is a trend) to the market, for a decade now.
Argueing anything different as a trend is revisionist history.
So? A game with the 360 as the lead platform (as far as advertising goes), a strong Pplaystation pedigree, and hardly any history to speak of with Nintendo.
Madden first hit the SNES in 1990, and has been on a Nintendo platform every year since 1992. Madden has a longer history on Nintendo's consoles than it does on Sony's or Microsoft's.
Nintendo gamers know Madden will be there.
Further, Madden Wii gets quite a bit of exposure, as it did at launch last year as well as leading into this year. It is one of the better Wii titles, one of the better selling 3rd party titles, has a long history and consumer recongition (even among non-gamers!), and actually makes extensive use of the Wiimote.
If Madden doesn't sell well on the Wii then pretty much any arguement about "quality 3rd party titles that use waggle will sell well" goes down the tube. This years Madden has been hyped a lot, and it doesn't hurt that, "Hey, one of the best 3 titles on the 360 is on the Wii--and uses the Wiimote really well!"
For those who don't play American football games, here is the consensus I have heard from every remotely serious football fan/gamer: The Wii version lacks in gameplay and the gestures are not always accurate and add latency. It is fun, but lacks the depth and competitive edge a competition driven sport, like football, require.
It appeals to some people, and some will like it a lot more. But I think that just as some games will work well with the Wiimote it needs to be equally accepted some won't, even when they are mapped well and innovative. Football, as far as I am concerned, will always be better on a system that does more in terms of gameplay issues (like animation/tackling) and is consistant and immediately responsive to user input.
I play flight sims with a flight stick, and not a gamepad or mouse, for the same reason. They work with the later, but the former is superior and the right way. Anyone who even remotely takes their flight sim seriously or wants the best experience would do just that.
On the flip side of the coin, Wii Sports is gonna suck without the Wiimote. You win some, lose some.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Wii owners are more likely to buy casual games or that some games will do significantly better on other platforms. It's jsut that some people seems to equate this with the 'fact' that 'proper' games can't and won't do well on Wii. This should be an obvious fallacy.
When the MP3: Corruption numbers come in over the next couple of weeks and turn out to suck, then we'll talk.
I think the point is relative to the market. Madden selling substantially better on the 360, when the Wii has the same/more consoles in the market, is significant when looking at quality titles that make use of the best technology on each platform and measuring how the best of a studio, like Tiberon, fairs on their respective platforms.
Its not that they can't and won't be successful. My question would be:
How often? And by what average compared to the market?
I don't get your MP3 point though. MP3 is a Nintendo first party game with a huge following dating back to the NES. It could be average, but as long as it was passable and made acceptible use of the Wiimote it would sell really well. The fact it appears to be a great game with great use of the Wiimote means it will sell awesome. But that is like saying, "Halo 3 sold well on the 360, so that proves 3rd party games can sell great too".
Additionally, some of those games came out even before the Wii was released. And Madden 07? VGCharts says it sold 450-500k. Nowhere near a million?
In fairness, Madden 2007 sold ~400k copies worldwide on the Wii in comparison to the 360 where it sold ~450-500k copies.
In
my looong Madden post in this thread
I quoted the NPD fiscal figures for 2006, which showed "Madden NFL 2007" on the Xbox 360 to have sold 1.1M units in CY2006. The 575K figure I quotes is specifically for August 2006. The larger number Scoob is quoting is total sales for "Madden NFL 2007".
And while I used non-NDP numbers as a last resort, and don't exactly know how well VGCharts pans out, they are claiming nearly 900K release week sales for Madden NFL 2008 on the 360. If true it will surely break 1M in August. As a reference point, the PS2 hit 1M units in August of last year with the '07 version (finished with 2.8M in CY) and as mentioned above the Xbox 360 '07 version was at 575K at release at Augusts end and 1.1M in CY2006.
Those are staggering sales. But I have a hard time believing less than 60K for the Wii version. If that is remotely true, I think it would be a strong general sign about the Wii audiance. The Madden "gaming" consumer tends to buy a new version every year -- it is the nature of the product and consumer. Every year teams have changes in regards to players, and fans find it important to keep rosters updated. Madden traditionally sees strong year-in and year-out sales; even the '07 version on the 360, which isn't significantly better than the '06 version, had improved sales over the year before.
