I really think it was a combination of the 360's price cut with the general economic doom and gloom in the fall and winter that hurt Sony's holiday sales. Sales were soft for "premium" items across the board which is what you'd have to think of the PS3's $399 entry point next to the 360's $199. Still, I wouldn't say the numbers were catastrophic. I think a ~500K number for December would have been troubling for the business as a whole, but I think they sold enough not to lose too much ground year, over year against the 360 while holding off on a needed price cut until they can better afford it (hopefully this spring).
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NPD December 2008
- Thread starter RobertR1
- Start date
Mintmaster
Veteran
Maybe you can say the LTD numbers are surprisingly low compared to early 2008 projections, but not the December figures. Last December was basically the "real" launch of the PS3 due to the $399 model, and it wasn't supply limited. The months after also behaved like near launch months. No way was PS3 going to better this Dec. than last.Come off it... it's hugely surprising, and must be a significant blow to Sony.
Agreed, but was 2008 actually worse overall?After publicly shouting "2008 will be the year of the PS3", and launching as many high profile games as they did (Resistance 2, MGS4, LBP all hailed as tentpole releases) and they are doing worse than during the disaster that was their 2007.
Very impressive for WaW, but there's actually a good amount of word of mouth for it, that I can tell.
I dont know why. I think the single player COD games, of any number (1-5), are terrible.
How's Left 4 Dead 360 doing compared to the Orange Box 360?
L4D destroyed Orange Box. Personally, I'm quite happy to see L4D do well. Fantastic game.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164417
7. The Orange Box (Xbox 360) -- 238,400
After the first month, it never charted again.
Also, Gears 2 over 4mil now. Twice the pace of Gears1. Once they fix the MP, it should continue to sell.
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/gears-of-war-2-eclipses-4-million-sold/?biz=1
"The original Gears of War was the fastest-selling next-generation game of 2006, selling more than 2 million units worldwide that Holiday, and now well over 5 million copies sold to date," said Welch. "With Gears of War 2, the game has sold over 4 million units in the first two months, doubling the pace of the original."
Gears of War 2 is doing pretty close to GeoW1, isn't it? More front-loaded, it seems.
Yep. IIRC Gears 1 did 1m 1st month and like 800k second month, on 1/4 the install base at the time.
Personally Gears 2 looks to be struggling to me, as much as one could say a 2.31 milion selling game is. It also being outsold by COD WaW just on 360.
I wonder what Epic thinks about this, or might change about the franchise.
I really think it was a combination of the 360's price cut with the general economic doom and gloom in the fall and winter that hurt Sony's holiday sales. Sales were soft for "premium" items across the board which is what you'd have to think of the PS3's $399 entry point next to the 360's $199. Still, I wouldn't say the numbers were catastrophic. I think a ~500K number for December would have been troubling for the business as a whole, but I think they sold enough not to lose too much ground year, over year against the 360 while holding off on a needed price cut until they can better afford it (hopefully this spring).
I don't see that price drop coming in the Spring time. If the losses are true between 1-2 billion for Sony, then that price drop may not come until Fall IMO. The price drop in Spring simply contradicts the ability to make a profit. If they do a price drop in Spring it will simply be for bragging purposes if sales for the hardware go up. I think the additional concern is the software sales continue to be stagnant for the PS3. Another thing is Sony has yet to have a million selling December.
The way Sony is losing money right now as a whole I have to question any near term PS3 cuts at all.
I would think more than 50 is very unlikely, if there is any..
I mean even if PS3 hardware/ Sony Games division were too be profitable now, (big if) they might prefer to just keep that money to staunch the red ink in other areas.
I would think more than 50 is very unlikely, if there is any..
I mean even if PS3 hardware/ Sony Games division were too be profitable now, (big if) they might prefer to just keep that money to staunch the red ink in other areas.
I wonder what Epic thinks about this, or might change about the franchise.
Just as word of mouth helps out a game like L4D, it hurts a game like Gears2. Gears1 was in the top 10 Live activity lists due to the MP. The MP in Gears 2 is rather broken (by most accounts).
Also I think people need to realize what a super franchise CoD has become since CoD4. Having CoD:WaW selling 1.3million in Dec vs Call of Duty 3 - 410,800 that was released at the time of Gears 1. Readily available for $35 during December certainly didn't hurt CoD:WaW sales either. After seeing a game like CoD4 and even Gears1 become major franchises due to their MP, it's amazing that Epic dropped the ball on that front. It's been over 2 months since Gears2 launched all they have to say is "we're working on it." Gamers are not known to be the most patient of people.
Just as word of mouth helps out a game like L4D, it hurts a game like Gears2. Gears1 was in the top 10 Live activity lists due to the MP. The MP in Gears 2 is rather broken (by most accounts).
Also I think people need to realize what a super franchise CoD has become since CoD4. Having CoD:WaW selling 1.3million in Dec vs Call of Duty 3 - 410,800 that was released at the time of Gears 1. Readily available for $35 during December certainly didn't hurt CoD:WaW sales either. After seeing a game like CoD4 and even Gears1 become major franchises due to their MP, it's amazing that Epic dropped the ball on that front. It's been over 2 months since Gears2 launched all they have to say is "we're working on it." Gamers are not known to be the most patient of people.
Gears 2 is still in the top 5 most played games on Live though. As far as sales aspect Gears 2 outsold the PS3 version of GTA 4 in 2 months.
Anyone know what the sales were for MGS4 since it was not part of the top 10 for 2008?
djskribbles
Legend
So what's your point? Is it that all these games are bad because their sales numbers are low, which is why the PS3 hardware numbers are down? If so, I disagree. These games aren't bad, they're just not selling well. Compare this years PS3 software library to last years... this years line up is MUCH better with LBP, R2, MGS4 etc. How does this explain the lower hardware numbers? I think it's because of the fact that the 360 is considerably cheaper now, and more people are opting for the cheaper machine. I don't care if you have a stacked software lineup, you're not going to sell a lot at $399.If that were the case then I'd expect the software lineup to sell adequately... but the software numbers can only be called disappointing. R2 has been outsold nearly 5-to-1 by Gears 2. MS2 is tracking below Viva Pinata Party Animals and far below PGR4, both of which were commercial failures, and both of which were installed with equivalent installed base. The lukewarm exclusives have got to be contributing to the reduced console sales vs. last year.
I'd have to disagree here as it doesn't explain the vast difference in multi-platform sales. COD: WAW sold more than double its PS3 counterpart. There are a bunch of multi-platform titles that sell vastly better on the 360, even after you take into account the user base difference. The only reason PS3 is as close as it is to the 360 given its price is because of its exclusives, otherwise why pay more.
A bunch? Most do pretty even, we've had this discussion before. Some even do better on the PS3 (such as DMC4). CoD is at home on the 360, though and it's possibly the biggest shooter (Halo may still be bigger) and certainly the biggest third-party shooter, so that's pretty significant. What others have done vastly better on the 360?
I dont know why. I think the single player COD games, of any number (1-5), are terrible.
Well, you're clearly not in the majority. I knew CoD5 was doing to do great, but I also expected CoD5 to be much worse than it was, so I thought we'd see huge front-loaded sales and then see it taper off. I guess the real test is January. CoD4 was able to secure #1 in Jan 2008 too, let's see if CoD5 can do similar numbers.
I dont know why. I think the single player COD games, of any number (1-5), are terrible.
Imo original CoD along with CoD2 were good singleplayer games at their time.
I really enjoyed CoD 2 multi aswell.
CoD3 singleplayer was /meh but multiplayer was suprisingly good considering it was a treyarch game.
I enjoyed CoD4 but it was far to short. 5 hour sp game feels like a rip off, but the multiplayer was the best mp ive played in many years.
Havent played CoD5 sp, i have played some multiplayer at a m8s house, i kinda like it, but not really sure if im going to buy it, probably not, considering that Killzone 2 is coming.
Back to NPD:
Great ds, wii and x360 numbers. Good PS3 numbers.
I get the feeling Wii was supply constrained, as 2 mill is not really that much for the Wii considering how much it usually sells.
Both consoles have had reasonably good amount of good games (some will say that the PS3 have had the best line up), PS3's library is starting to grow, but the price differences are to much to swallow. The PS3 is selling 10-15% less than the X360 last year (? im guessing , i know its less but dunno exactly how much- dont have numbers infront of me). Which is not bad considering X360 didnt have much competition in terms of software etc.
Sony reported very bad sales in the holiday seasons on all their electronics, but 700k seems okay.
If we now consider how cheap the X360 has become, PS3 sales are imo good. The X360 is starting to become really cheap, in europe aswell and its showing in their numbers.Im considering purchasing a second X360 for myself, its so cheap.
$199 entry point is PS2 territory. Unless PS3 cuts price, i reckon 2009 will be a very very good year for the X360. I know alot of people here dismiss the arcade, but i think the arcade will pick up once it becomes cheap enough. It might not be quite there yet ( it is in europe, atleast in scandinavia now. 1400nok vs 3700nok (ps3 was 5000\6000 NOK ~ 1000USD at the time) at launch).
Outlook is excellent for X360 and Wii. I think outlook for PS3 looks okay, it needs a price cut to stay competitive.
Europe:
(I know this is NPD thread,but i reckon its slightly relevant)
Both the X360 and PS3 reported good growth. 100% growth for the X360 and 130% for the PS3 compared to december 2007. Microsoft sold 1 million more X360's than PS3 in december 2008.
Even thought sony is reporting red numbers right now i still think a price cut might be possible, depending on their current costs. (Software can do alot, bundle away KZ2 etc)
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Where are you getting your numbers from? Top10 lists? Top20? Quarterly Statements?
We've had this discussion before, with the same argument. We've had charts before, disproving them. We go off NPD numbers, we always do, and I believe it was catisfit who compiled the chart, maybe it was for September, that showed that the sale of most titles pretty much falls in what you'd expect from the install-base. As in, 360 titles sell twice as well as PS3 titles in the US, but there are also twice as many 360s. There are exceptions, with CoD being the most notable (Madden may have also been there, I forget), but DMC, for instance, shifted in the other direction. Unless you're saying it didn't? Do you have any inside information you can share?
I believe it was catisfit who compiled the chart
Yes it was, I will dig it out and update it to Dec if you like. It contains every title for which there was both a 360 and PS3 sales number given in NPD.
EDIT: The original is here.
We've had this discussion before, with the same argument. We've had charts before, disproving them. We go off NPD numbers, we always do, and I believe it was catisfit who compiled the chart, maybe it was for September, that showed that the sale of most titles pretty much falls in what you'd expect from the install-base. As in, 360 titles sell twice as well as PS3 titles in the US, but there are also twice as many 360s. There are exceptions, with CoD being the most notable (Madden may have also been there, I forget), but DMC, for instance, shifted in the other direction. Unless you're saying it didn't? Do you have any inside information you can share?
So what does that say about Motorstorm or Resistance 2? You have 360 owners buying both muiltiplatform and exclusive games in the high numbers but the trend drops off with the PS3. The sales for the last 2 months did not have an affect on those exclusive titles which clearly shows the install base is not buying the games. I personally have been saying for awhile that the issue that no one mentions is what category of a PS3 owner do you fall under?
Either you bought the PS3 for BR only, games only, or both. You can even throw in if they are dual console owners 360/PS3. No one has that data to show the % of what kind of owner they are but I believe that is part of the software sales issue with the PS3. Only one PS3 game made the top 10 and it was multiplatform and released in May.
Table updated. Call of Duty: World at War is the only qualifying title in Nov, Dec.
Code:
Numbers are percentage share, NPD figures, 360 first
Title Month Install Base Sales
Burnout Paradise Jan 73-27 63-37
Devil May Cry 4 Feb 72-28 56-44
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 Mar 71-29 83-17
Army Of Two Mar 71-29 73-27
Grand Theft Auto 4 Apr 70-30 65-35
NCAA Football 09 Jul 68-32 62-38
Soul Calibur IV Jul 68-32 58-42
Madden NFL 09 Aug 67-33 61-39
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed Sep 67-33 65-35
Call of Duty: World at War Nov 67-33 70-30
Call of Duty: World at War Dec 67-33 71-29So what does that say about Motorstorm or Resistance 2? You have 360 owners buying both muiltiplatform and exclusive games in the high numbers but the trend drops off with the PS3. The sales for the last 2 months did not have an affect on those exclusive titles which clearly shows the install base is not buying the games. I personally have been saying for awhile that the issue that no one mentions is what category of a PS3 owner do you fall under?
I'm contesting BadTB25's claim that multiplatform games on the 360 sell vastly better. In sheer number, yes, but generally not outside what you'd expect from a 2:1 lead. That's it.
Code:
[B]Per Week, Nov (4 week) -> Dec (5 week) (% change)[/B]
PlayStation Portable 105.25k -> 204.0k (+94%)
PlayStation 2 51.5k -> 82.0k (+59%)
Nintendo DS 392.5k -> 608.0k (+55%)
PlayStation 3 94.5k -> 145.2k (+54%)
Xbox 360 209.0k -> 288.0k (+38%)
Nintendo Wii 510.0k -> 430.0k (-16%)
[B]LTD[/B]
Wii 17,540,000 (45.9%, +0.5% since Nov)
360 13,889,200 (36.3%, -0.4% since Nov)
PS3 6,788,400 (17.8%, -0.1% since Nov)
[B]Y2008[/B]
Wii 10,171,000 (55.1%)
360 4,735,200 (25.7%)
PS3 3,545,400 (19.2%)I'm disapointed with both 360 and ps3.
First off the ps3 recieved a $100 price cut this year and only managed to pick up 1m units over sales last year. That is really bad news for sony as I don't know if another price cut is going to help them that much esp as bluray players become cheaper
The xbox 360had a price cut to late into the game. I don't know how many systems more they sold over last year but I think its obvious that if they droped earlier they would have sold many more units than they ended up selling.
For both systems i hope to see better sales next year. I'm not sure when sony can drop the price again but perhaps they should only go with a $50 price drop and make a bundle for the year with resistance 2 and uncharted 1. Perhaps bring the 80 gig down to $350 an put out a 250 gig unit at the $500 price point. For ms hopefully once this current price cut runs out of steam they have a big sale on the current elite systems to clear out back stock. Then introduce a 250 gig elite sku at a $350 price point and shift all units to $150/$250/$350
First off the ps3 recieved a $100 price cut this year and only managed to pick up 1m units over sales last year. That is really bad news for sony as I don't know if another price cut is going to help them that much esp as bluray players become cheaper
The xbox 360had a price cut to late into the game. I don't know how many systems more they sold over last year but I think its obvious that if they droped earlier they would have sold many more units than they ended up selling.
For both systems i hope to see better sales next year. I'm not sure when sony can drop the price again but perhaps they should only go with a $50 price drop and make a bundle for the year with resistance 2 and uncharted 1. Perhaps bring the 80 gig down to $350 an put out a 250 gig unit at the $500 price point. For ms hopefully once this current price cut runs out of steam they have a big sale on the current elite systems to clear out back stock. Then introduce a 250 gig elite sku at a $350 price point and shift all units to $150/$250/$350
