NPD April 2003
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Bingo!
I would also add Gamecube does have a different feel to it than PS2/Box. The only GC games I play regularly are SSBM and Super Monkey Ball - the two greatest party games ever, with the possible exception of DDR and Mario Kart. I know I'm neglecting a lot of great stuff, like Metroid Prime, Zelda, etc., but to me, GC = party game machine: 4-player, big screen TV, 5-second-to-learn games, infinite replay value. Maybe that's why GC sales aren't so good...no real need to buy new games.
[off topic]
No offense to the girl gamers here, but GC games also tend to be equally fun for both sexes. Nothing kills a party faster than LAN halo, with the guys watching/playing and the girls bored as hell.
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Magnum PI
Any console maker likes to sell lots of first party games, because obviously its much more profitable then third party. However a balance has to be struck between first and third party sales. Third party support is important because no console maker is going to be able to provide first party games that will satisfy the needs of a broad group of gamers. Even if they can produce a diverse range of games the number of games in each genre is not going to be enough for most gamers, people need choice. Third parties are needed to fill in the gaps. If a console does not have good third party support then it can never be a real success. The console maker might still make money if, like Nintendo, they can produce loads of excellent games themselves. However your not going to win any consoles wars with a console that has little third party support.
Having said that I think GC's third party support is still pretty decent, appart from some devs with there crappy late ports. Its far better then N64's was. Hopefully, with Nintendo making more effort with third parties now, GC2 will have even better third party support.
Any console maker likes to sell lots of first party games, because obviously its much more profitable then third party. However a balance has to be struck between first and third party sales. Third party support is important because no console maker is going to be able to provide first party games that will satisfy the needs of a broad group of gamers. Even if they can produce a diverse range of games the number of games in each genre is not going to be enough for most gamers, people need choice. Third parties are needed to fill in the gaps. If a console does not have good third party support then it can never be a real success. The console maker might still make money if, like Nintendo, they can produce loads of excellent games themselves. However your not going to win any consoles wars with a console that has little third party support.
Having said that I think GC's third party support is still pretty decent, appart from some devs with there crappy late ports. Its far better then N64's was. Hopefully, with Nintendo making more effort with third parties now, GC2 will have even better third party support.
Most publishers are'nt botherin with GBA huh? Cause the market is so saturated with games? Man that's a bit of an oxymoron is'nt it. The GBA has a ton of publishers..why do you think the market is so saturated? Only one I can think of is Eidos cause they want to make cell phone games .Anyways 201,000 + units per 3rd party title on GBA is'nt anything to scoff at. And thanks to SP (selling 10 per minute in US) the hardware is now beginning to lift that number along with the tie ratio. You want to see a "saturated market" look no further than PS2. Take out Take Two and EA from that 1,292,000 PS2 figure and you'd get a hella lot lower "3rd party" number than that.
And about "big license like a mario, movie or comic" only selling on GBA. That can also be said about ALL current systems. Hmm PS2..Madden. Lord Of The Rings, Tony Hawk, GTA, GTVC. DBZ, etc. GBA has had games like Sonic, Advance Wars, Hamtaro etc do pretty well. And these were pre SP.
My point about leverage was that the 301,000 number is what Nintendo does successfully (one of the few things it does well sometimes) when making deals with 3rd parties. If Sony can court developers with the semi skewed 1.29 m 3rd party units number than Nintendo surely can say to 3rd parties "hey here is what deving for both Nintendo machines can yield for you. 300,000 units. Mr. Publisher you want to make a GCN game..how about sticking 5 or 6 guys on a GBA version for about 4 to 6 months and we'll cut you a deal on both royalties..and 300,000 units sold is what you could sell."
That's leverage. And so far it's worked.
Deepak said:
Ah young Padwan, you nothing understand! Ask questions not, simply more Nintendo software buy, and 'enjoy' connectivity you will.
Sorry for the ESL's, but Yoda-speak is fun
In otherwords, connectivity is Nintendo's "thing". XBL is Microsoft's "thing", and Sony doesn't need a "thing" since they're infallible. I guess you could define "thing" as a unique property for each console, marketed ad nauseum, used to bring in higher revenues and promote the platform.
Not at all. There's so many GBA game alredy out there that it's incresingly difficult for a new GBA title to come out and make a decent profit. Specifically when that title isn't something made by nintendo, and doesn't have a worth while license (Like spider man or the hulk). That's why you see so few new and oringinal titles these days on GBA because nobody wants to pick those up.
I've a total 3D version of "state of emergency running on the GBA that was greatly improved from previous versions and Rockstar still didn't want to pickit up.
A ton of publishers tha thave RECENTLY released a game? I think not... Guess who makes the most GBA titles next to nintendo? I bet you didn't know it was THQ.
And that's spread across how GBA many titles?
Ah that's BS, I'm talking about the number of games coming out today, I'm not including all the previous released games. PS2 is a totally different story this year. They are only taking about 250 games for release, so they are turning stuff away right and left. Sorry, but you CAN'T take out take two and EA.
Same on console can be said to an extent, but you're always seeing oringinal games on consles these days and some of them sell a lot of copies or at least enough to make a profit. That however can't be said about oringinal GBA titles. Keep in mind tha tmost of the gba titles out there are either liceses or a rehash form teh 16 bit era (snes - genesis)
I think you have a skewed perception of how things actually work. For one thing, sony doesn't have to court developers, and if they do it's with cold hard cash. The publishers out there demand products on PS2 form developers because it's user base is so high. The numbers speak for themselves. Nintendo doesn't actually "court" publishers either. They don't even cut deals on royaltees. The idea behind the GBA connectivity thing is that one version will possibly make the gamer want the other version (increasing your revenue). However so far, that hasn't worked for any title but nintendo's.
It's because you get a developer trying to make a game for the GCN the quickiest cheapest way they cn and they cry when they get a small return on that. Give the systemm real support and they would make some profits. But when your 3rd party offerings looks/plays like last gen offereings because of 1st party offerings it's a no brainer really.Qroach said:
KnightBreed
Newcomer
Just a side note, but do you have any proof of this, or is this simply armchair conjecture?Qroach said:
Knightbreed,
Technically, unless your invovled in game development and have seen things like this first hand, then that it's armchair conjecture. Like I just said, I've seen this first hand man. GBA "only" development houses drying up because they can't get work. Most publishers won't even consider a GBA game unless it's bundled with a bunch of console versions (GC, PS2 Xbox). Not only that, but retailers won't take a chance on a title if they don't think it will sell. retailers only want to give space to something they are sure will make money. I'm not making this up man, I had no idea about these things until I got more invovled with sales/marketing in the last year. There's so many things that effect development choices these days, you wouldn't believe all of them.
Seriously, if you want proof of this? have a look at all the GBA titles released recently (say the last 6 months), that weren't a port of a 16 bit game, a title created by nintendo, or had some sort of popular license attached to it (Yu Gi Oh). You shoudl see that tittles with the above critieria ar ethe only oes doing extremly well on the GBA these days.
Technically, unless your invovled in game development and have seen things like this first hand, then that it's armchair conjecture. Like I just said, I've seen this first hand man. GBA "only" development houses drying up because they can't get work. Most publishers won't even consider a GBA game unless it's bundled with a bunch of console versions (GC, PS2 Xbox). Not only that, but retailers won't take a chance on a title if they don't think it will sell. retailers only want to give space to something they are sure will make money. I'm not making this up man, I had no idea about these things until I got more invovled with sales/marketing in the last year. There's so many things that effect development choices these days, you wouldn't believe all of them.
Seriously, if you want proof of this? have a look at all the GBA titles released recently (say the last 6 months), that weren't a port of a 16 bit game, a title created by nintendo, or had some sort of popular license attached to it (Yu Gi Oh). You shoudl see that tittles with the above critieria ar ethe only oes doing extremly well on the GBA these days.
Well for one, that's not much of a reach... Handhelds have long been dependent on their "big brother machines" as picking up the left over slop for title ideas. Of course in Japan this is quite the opposite where you a ton of little handheld-only studios. Then again that just illustrates the differences where you have a massive handheld market there (comparable in size to home consoles, and twice the size if you factor in mobile phone gaming), whereas in the US the handheld market is pretty weak (dunno about Europe, but I'd imagine that lies somewhere in between)...
Qroach, if I'm skewed, you surely are. Of course big name franchise titles are gonna do the best on GBA..just like PS2 and GCN for that matter. But you are wrong about "only big name titles doing well on GBA". Yes alot of games do get lost on the store shelves but this is alos a growing problem with PS2 as well. but if you look at GBA games like Godzilla DOM, Driver 2 Advance and the Sonic Titles. Also look at the three GBA Castlevania games (of which take any of the three and they will have done more in sales than the new Castvania PS2 game will imo..yes I'll take that bet) they have been very successful. As well as Namco's Museum games and Frogger games. The two Golden Sun games are another example of an original new series that has done well.
There are alot of GBA games that have done well for various companies. It's not as bleak as you are painting it. And again regarding PS2, take off EA's "big license titles and Rockstar's two GTA games and the PS2 3rd party picture changes alot from the 1.2 m number.
There are alot of GBA games that have done well for various companies. It's not as bleak as you are painting it. And again regarding PS2, take off EA's "big license titles and Rockstar's two GTA games and the PS2 3rd party picture changes alot from the 1.2 m number.
