No NV30 means no NV30 pics

DrT

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In Nvidia's CC today, Huang admitted that NV30 has not taped out yet. That means that none of the images floating around were rendered on an NV30.

I am a stockholder of Nvidia, but I think Nvidia has went too far this time with it's counter-marketing. If NV30 isn't released this fall and if it can't render those photos, Nvidia will take a huge hit on their reputation.
 
People are trying to excuse this by saying nVidia rendered the pix on a software simulator.

But that doesn't mean anything to me. I heard BitBoys were ridiculed for creating renders on sofware simulators of their hardware designs - why should this be any different? :-?

Those images being drooled over are from the exluna website, they're the same angle, there's nothing at all to differentiate them from the "nV30 generated" images. It's all hype, and I can't believe how many people are allowing themselves to be sucked in. I want details and renders from the nV30 as much as anyone else, but not so much that I'm willing to throw my common sense out the window and fall for this nonsense :rolleyes:

This is very damaging for nVidias reputation - the late tapeout would be bad enough, but it essentially proves that no images have been rendered on nV3x hardware.

The saddest thing about this whole affair is the refusal of so many to let go of their belief that the images are genuine nV30 renders. I'm embarrassed on their behalf, I can't even bring myself to ridicule them.

Most of all I'm annoyed at nVidia for running so late - I was relying on competition between nV30 and R9700 to drive prices down a little before Xmas. I don't see that happening now.

Nearly forgot to add that nV30 will be perfectly capable of rendering those images, just as R9700 could do it. Just because it could render them doesn't mean it did.
 
The Geforce 4 Ti4600 is still a formibable card , ATI must stay competetive with that card along with Parhelia and other fine cards out there. Yes ATI may have the 1st DX9 card out, but the bottom line is the price and I see ATI keeping pace with the Ti4600 pricing strategy.
 
I hadn't thought of it like that..

So you think ATI will encourage retailers to keep prices competitive with Ti4600?

The RRP of $399 suggests it'll be pricey for a while.. not sure how US retailers operate tho!
 
I think this horse has been dead, beaten, and mashed into hotdogs by now. How about doing things the old fashioned way and just dropping the arguement?
 
(This is purely speculation)
Perhaps they originally taped out a version with a 128-bit bus, and after they saw all of their competition went to 256-bit they did a quick modification to it and are trying to tape that out now...
 
My speculative money would have me guess yield positively stunk at TSMC so they're moving to UMC.

That seems to fit the recent UMC announcement of NVIDIA moving their business, plus might halfway fit the "hasn't taped out" comment from the investor's conference call. It would also allow working samples out of TSMC to do driver development work on and plus have parts so the designers could do their functional verification. They just couldn't go to production since yield stunk so bad.

Of course, any two points make a line, so I'm not saying it with any conviction.
 
The possibility does exist that they had to make some minor modifications in response to R300 specs that they obtained a few months ago -- but large changes are not possible this late in the design. The original date I heard for NV30 tapeout was mid-July, so this would not be a huge departure from that. However, I think it's overly optimistic for them to think they will be able to get ramped production this holiday season.

As far as the images go, it's still possible they were rendered on NV30 (ie running the VHDL on IKOS).
 
megadrive0088 said:
That's odd, I thought Huang said that NV30 had taped out back in May or June. what the?

Hrm that could be related to nvidias "marketting disinformation campaign" they started a while back.. I have heard a lot of rumors that it had been "taped out" but it seems it was all just a sceme to take attention away from the Radeon 9700 launch.. or at least that is what one would conclude.
 

They just couldn't go to production since yield stunk so bad.


That may be true, but then they wouldn't have said that it hasn't taped out yet. The only possibility there is that they meant tapeout of the final spin, but I think they would have clarified that if that's what they meant.

As far as UMC vs TSMC goes, I can't imagine them picking everything up and moving to UMC. There would be a considerable amount of retweaking necessary when moving fabs. Secondly, my understanding is that TSMC has a more mature 0.13u process. I think the UMC move is probably their existing 0.15u lineup, and not NV30.
 
From what I've heard, UMC hasn't been having the same yield issues as TSMC when it comes to .13u, which is sort of counter to the prevailing norm of TSMC being the 'best', 'safest', 'most advanced', etc.

What I was suggesting is maybe the UMC targetted NV30 hadn't taped out yet. Then my convoluted conspiracy theory works out.

None the less, its a convoluted conspiracy theory no matter which way you slice it.

But then again, from the "facts", its going to take quite a bit of convolution to explain everything.
 
I can't believe people and their theories. Tape out commonly refers to the first silicon of the chip. Why would Nvidia change that? In fact, they can't. The reason why this issue was addressed is that they are legally required to address rumours that can impact their stock price, positively or negatively.

Now, they can still make X-Mas, but in reality, only if their 1st silicon is perfect. Highly doubtful considering the size of the chip. But, not impossible.
 
Could the released pictures have been done on earlier engineering samples of the NV30 rather than a software simulator?

For all we know the final retail NV30 might be the 52nd design they tried and finally accepted - if its not simulated in software we might be seeing pictures produced by NV30 h/w model 48 for instance. Isn't this possible?
 
There's nothing wrong with rendering on an emulator / simulator and posting the images. I think the criticism when Bitboys do the same is that the product isn't really following.

I don't think anyone has any doubts than nv30 will actually turn up.

I do think nvidia should make clear what is simulated, though. I guess it's just part of the anti-R300 FUD.
 
How about NVNews, 3D GPU, Sharky Extreme, PC Rave and other sites to place a big sorry on their main page, because they missleaded their readers with the claim the pictures they posted are from an NV30?

I don't see this happening. The opposite is true. Most of these hype sites keep silent about the fact that NV30 is still not hardware.
 
Dio: can you be 100% sure that NV30 will come out? Of course nVidia has tons of more reliability than Bitboys, but some of you might still remember why Glaze / Avalanche isn't out even today, right?

If you look at the BB & Infineon situation and compare it to nVidia & TSMC situation right now, some of you might be capable finding some similarities...

I am not saying that situation is exactly same, but manufacturer giving too optimistic promises about heat and process quality is the point what I mean...
 
Mephisto said:
How about NVNews, 3D GPU, Sharky Extreme, PC Rave and other sites to place a big sorry on their main page, because they missleaded their readers with the claim the pictures they posted are from an NV30?

I don't see this happening. The opposite is true. Most of these hype sites keep silent about the fact that NV30 is still not hardware.

It all goes back to Journalistic intergrity, something the internet is lacking on a Grand scale. Even today after the conference call yesterday not one site reported it, in fact Nvnews posts a X-bit labs article based off a thread here stating October is still the Target date... :LOL:
 
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