Nintendo increases R&D spending - N5 not a GC sucessor ?

[Fox5]

pong, odessy, fairchild channel f, atari vcs/2600, intellivision, atari 5200, colecovision, all came before the 1983 release of the famicom.

the current console model though, is pretty much patterned after what nintendo did with the famicom/nes.

Specifically the controller....

 

[thop]

We have more news.

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata refers to Revolution as a product of a different nature, using similar terminology as was used to vaguely hint at the Nintendo DS prior to its official announcement. Revolution is most definitely a console, though, in that it's something that's set down and connected to a monitor as it's played. Nintendo engineer Genyo Takeda offers, "You'll be able to play not just by linking up to a television but to a computer monitor as well."
Iwata goes on to describe the product as something "of a different nature that does not follow the conventional path of new game systems that increase speed and visual quality for making elaborate games." He continues, "The rule of satisfying customers by increasing specifications worked once, but no longer applies now."

Gameplay, according to Iwata, is what counts -- not improvements in graphics and sound. The company has apparently been working on Revolution by looking at various areas in which consoles can be revolutionized.

And, just to be sure imaginations don't run in the wrong direction, Iwata states "We have no intention of making a two screen console akin to the DS."

 

[cthellis42]

Gameplay indeed counts, but they seem to forget that you can improve both. And that high-enough advancements in hardware (and what is included with the consoles) can have their own affect on gameplay as well. And that hardware R&D in no way means you must sacrifice software development as well. (Though I suppose it might have more impact on Nintendo, since they are their own best game supplier and still seem to be shrinking from a 3rd party standpoint.)

"Linking to a computer monitor" is dandy, but I rather imagine all the next consoles will be able to do that, since they're aiming at HDTV standards as well. (It'll more be a question of who offers the ability straight out of the box, and who needs extra equipment purchased to accomplish it.)

Offhand I have no idea what "not following the conventional path" indicates. More seemless connectivity? Different control schemes? That kind of stuff seems to be coming along even from those mere "conventional" sources as well, so it's not like one precludes the other.

Thinking that all newer and powerful hardware affects is "graphics and sound" makes me wonder just how out-of-the-box they CAN be thinking for their next, Revolutionary, machine.

Frankly, I'm getting a bit worried.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Mario Party 6 would be playable on GameCube without a controller. Iwata -Toy?

 

[Teasy]

Gameplay indeed counts, but they seem to forget that you can improve both.

I doubt they mean that hardware shouldn't be improved. Just that its not the only thing that should be improved. Look at DS, they said similar things about that. But they still improved graphics significantly over GBA-SP (compare Doom3 on SP to Metroid: Hunters on DS ).

Though I suppose it might have more impact on Nintendo, since they are their own best game supplier and still seem to be shrinking from a 3rd party standpoint

Nintendo have grown significantly in third party support this generation when compared to last generation.

 

[cthellis42]

I doubt they mean that hardware shouldn't be improved. Just that its not the only thing that should be improved. Look at DS, they said similar things about that. But they still improved graphics significantly over GBA-SP (compare Doom3 on SP to Metroid: Hunters on DS ).

Yeah, but I'll be a lot happier when I can see anything about their hardware. Like I said, it's just the comments are getting me nervous. You wouldn't want to see a DS-to-PSP level of graphic difference coming from N5, would you?

Nintendo have grown significantly in third party support this generation when compared to last generation.

...and the N64 had more technical issues dissuading developers and publishers stemming from the cartridge decision. I'm mainly looking at the trend within this generation, as next one will not be making up for a technical shortcoming. (An no, I'm not wanting to start an arguement about that; from a publishing standpoint it was a definite shortcoming.)

 

[Fox5]

We have more news.

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata refers to Revolution as a product of a different nature, using similar terminology as was used to vaguely hint at the Nintendo DS prior to its official announcement. Revolution is most definitely a console, though, in that it's something that's set down and connected to a monitor as it's played. Nintendo engineer Genyo Takeda offers, "You'll be able to play not just by linking up to a television but to a computer monitor as well."
Iwata goes on to describe the product as something "of a different nature that does not follow the conventional path of new game systems that increase speed and visual quality for making elaborate games." He continues, "The rule of satisfying customers by increasing specifications worked once, but no longer applies now."

Gameplay, according to Iwata, is what counts -- not improvements in graphics and sound. The company has apparently been working on Revolution by looking at various areas in which consoles can be revolutionized.

And, just to be sure imaginations don't run in the wrong direction, Iwata states "We have no intention of making a two screen console akin to the DS."

A computer screen? So like the d-terminal adapter on gamecube, or vga adapter on dreamcast? Well, that could certainly help nintendo have an iq advantage over other systems without having a more powerful system, since most people don't have HDTVs. I could also see dual screens, two computer monitors or two tvs or a tv and a computer monitor, gamecube had two video outputs.

 

[Fox5]

I doubt they mean that hardware shouldn't be improved. Just that its not the only thing that should be improved. Look at DS, they said similar things about that. But they still improved graphics significantly over GBA-SP (compare Doom3 on SP to Metroid: Hunters on DS ).

Yeah, but I'll be a lot happier when I can see anything about their hardware. Like I said, it's just the comments are getting me nervous. You wouldn't want to see a DS-to-PSP level of graphic difference coming from N5, would you?

Nintendo have grown significantly in third party support this generation when compared to last generation.

...and the N64 had more technical issues dissuading developers and publishers stemming from the cartridge decision. I'm mainly looking at the trend within this generation, as next one will not be making up for a technical shortcoming. (An no, I'm not wanting to start an arguement about that; from a publishing standpoint it was a definite shortcoming.)

And lets not forget that many people feel nintendo's 1st party suppport has dropped in quality this generation, plus they lost some big exclusives and 2nd parties. I don't consider capcom's support worth the loss of rare, and the turok series was big on the n64(at least as important as resident evil is on gamecube) and it sucked this gen and became 3rd party.

 

[cthellis42]

Frankly, I don't call "Rare's support" worth a damn at all right now. They're not so much in the overall equation.

 

[Teasy]

You wouldn't want to see a DS-to-PSP level of graphic difference coming from N5, would you?

No I wouldn't, but I don't think we will see that either. I think the main reason for such a difference, graphically, with DS and PSP was battery life.

and the N64 had more technical issues dissuading developers and publishers stemming from the cartridge decision. I'm mainly looking at the trend within this generation, as next one will not be making up for a technical shortcoming

Yeah, still there are other reasons this gen dissuading developers and publishers that could change next gen. Besides third party development always comes back in force at the start of a new generation. Its then just down to wether Nintendo can keep support during that generation.

 

[cthellis42]

'struth

 

[wazoo]

And lets not forget that many people feel nintendo's 1st party suppport has dropped in quality this generation,

purely subjective.

plus they lost some big exclusives and 2nd parties. I don't consider capcom's support worth the loss of rare, and the turok series was big on the n64(at least as important as resident evil is on gamecube) and it sucked this gen and became 3rd party.

Rare was big on N64. Turok was big on N64.

Rare is nothing this gen, Turok is dead. I would not call this a loss, but some wise decisions, not ?? GC library is much bigger than N64, and at the end of its life (considering you are comparing to the whole N64 library), it will be so much better and diverse there is no comparison.

About Capcom, I would not consider the 3 RE and VJ as nothing.

 

[Fox5]

Doesn't matter if rare and turok were big on n64 and flopped this gen, if nintendo had supported them as they did during the n64, they may have remained big.(And conker live and uncut certainly doesn't look bad)

GC's library is bigger than n64s... but most of it is just crappy 3rd party games. 3rd party multiplatform games don't make a difference, and crappy 3rd party games don't make a difference, but that's basically all nintendo gained this gen. N64 was far more profitable, and had far better rated games. Also, n64 was better in first person shooters and platformers than gamecube is.

The 3 re games and vj aren't nothing, but they're not as important as rare's entire contribution to the n64, nintendo probably would have flopped on the n64 without rare's support.(and support from both rare and capcom started on a previous generation, rare made donkey kong country which gave the snes a few extra years of life, capcom ported resident evil 2, and started to make re:zero, and had virtually no impact) Plus, come on, 3 re games? 1 was a big deal, 3 is just redundant, even though re4 may be one of the best games ever and a large change in the series it still has a very similar theme and style. And VJ isn't exclusive, it'll be on ps2 eventually.(that decision probably doesn't effect gamecube much, but VJ wasn't a million seller either)

BTW, in my opinion....
The Pokemon Stadiums blew Pokemon Colosseum away.

Super Mario 64 blew Super Mario Sunshine way.

Goldeneye blew away every first person shooter on gamecube, except maybe timesplitters 2, that's sort of a give and take thing there.

Mario Party is pretty much the same as always.

Starfox 64 was better than Starfox Adventures(and since it's a rare game; it was better than some rare n64 games, but worse than conker's bad fur day)

Wind Waker was better than zelda 64. Not sure if it's better than majora's mask, I liked majora's mask, but I never got around to finishing it, but it had some real good promise. Wind Waker is probably better though, as its the first zelda game with puzzles that require at least a small amount of intelligence.(especially some of the optional ones on islands)

Wario Ware sucked compared to the gba version.

Super Smash Bros Melee blew SSB out of the water, if only all gamecube games were this high quality.

Pikmin was a very fun and original attempt, wish it had been delayed for a bit longer though, so close to perfection, with a bit more time it could have been as good as or better than mario 64. IMO, this should have been nintendo's premier title, wonder if things would have gone differently if nintendo launched a year later with even beefier hardware and a whole slew of perfected games....hey, it worked for the n64 to launch late with just 1 perfect game, they sold like the first 10 million n64s just on that.

Metroid Prime is better than the 2d metroids I suppose, but it doesn't really seem to the same type of game as them. I find it closer to halflife, and in that comparision I'm not sure if I prefer metroid prime or halflife, just both are damn good.(wind waker still has better puzzles though)

Wave Race...can't really remember the n64 one well, but I liked this one, lacking in options, but it was fun.

The Rogue Squadron games seemed somehow less fun than the n64 game, rebel strike had pitifully short missions(and a fun multiplayer mode), and rogue leader was hard, but they just didn't seem to play as well. They seemed less arcadey on the gamecube, if you're going to move to flight sim, at least go all out and produce a sequel to tie fighter.

Fzero- Good I guess, but fzero x was better, it was easier to control, you didn't zoom by opponents, and multiplayer was interesting since you actually saw each other once in a while. Better tracks too.

Turok- they were pretty bad on n64, stupid quake style games(horrible level design) with good graphics, a fun coop and deathmatch mode in turok 2(use cheat codes, set res low and wide screen, and you can play through the single player in multiplayer at somewhat acceptable framerates....only the boss battles were really fun, and the multiplayer weapons were crappified), didn't really miss it, but hey, it used to get like 9s on the n64. Project SWARM may actually have been a better game(true coop action, that's all I played in it, but it was pretty crazy for the rental I had it).

Extreme G: Another overrated n64 series, yet it still managed to fail my expectations on gamecube.

Mortal Kombat had a slight improvement.

Kirby Air Ride should have been combined with mario kart to make a good game.

Mario Kart had very little of anything, but I think I like double dash better than mario kart 64.(64 had better battle arenas though, and possibly better tracks)

Resident Evil is unfortunately the same as always, keeps improving graphics, makes the storyline more confusing, and leave the bad controls in tact. Give me a zombie revenge styled RE, please.

 

[hey69]

Iwata-san told a news conference in Tokyo that: "The Japanese game market has steadily been shrinking since 1997 and there is no clear sign of an exit to such a falling trend. The key reason for the continued shrinkage lies in the fact that the complication of games is prompting the growing number of so-called light users to not play games anymore."

However Iwata-san believed that the launch of the DS will help recapture those lost casual gamers and also introduce a whole new generation of players to the delights of gaming. Iwata-san said, "The launch of the Nintendo DS is our answer to the shrinking game market in Japan. With the launch of the Nintendo DS, we are confident of introducing new fans and bring those light users who have stopped playing games back into the fold." Yet Iwata-san went on to say that he believed that the DS wouldn't necessarily alienate dedicated gamers and it would still appeal to a hardcore audience.

Still, he had some harsher words about the ever-increasing push for ever more complicated technology and higher end graphics specifications in a barely disguised swipe at Sony and Microsoft, joint champions of the high-tech.

"I have gained a stronger belief that the old trick of success - the combination of high-spec game consoles and advanced graphics - no longer works," Iwata said. "Light users no longer see any value in advanced graphics."

(YEAH RIGHT....)


Iwata-san ended on an optimistic note, confirming he was convinced that Nintendo, revived by the DS and subsequent launch of the Cube's successor, the Revolution, would push hard for success over the next few years. "I am confident Nintendo has the ability to break through the deadlock now surrounding the global game market and continue to grow rapidly," Iwata concluded.


source : CVG

 

[thop]

However, Iwata also stressed that Nintendo doesn't see hardware innovation as unnecessary. "We at Nintendo aren't brushing off the need for high technology, but we think that there are other ways of taking advantage of it," commented Iwata. "The Nintendo DS's double screen or touch-sensitive panel isn't particularly new, but there weren't any other companies that thought of using them in video game machines."

 

[Teasy]

Doesn't matter if rare and turok were big on n64 and flopped this gen, if nintendo had supported them as they did during the n64, they may have remained big.(And conker live and uncut certainly doesn't look bad)

No amount of support was going to make Rare anywhere near as good as they were on the N64. You don't think MS fully support Rare? As most Nintendo fans said even before Rare left Nintendo, they were a shadow of there former selves. When they went to MS it was announced that they would have 4 games out for XBox by 2004. Here we are in 2004 and what have they released? They've released one decidedly average game for XBox.

GC's library is bigger than n64s... but most of it is just crappy 3rd party games. 3rd party multiplatform games don't make a difference, and crappy 3rd party games don't make a difference, but that's basically all nintendo gained this gen.

Nintendo gained both crappy and good third party games, multi platform and exclusive. That's what they needed to gain.

As for your opinion on Nintendo's first party games not being as good this gen. One thing you should remember, GameCube's life is not yet over. So if your going to compare GC's first party to N64's then make sure you don't include any games like Conkers Bad Fur Day or Perfect Dark. Since they were late in N64's life.

Resident Evil is unfortunately the same as always, keeps improving graphics, makes the storyline more confusing, and leave the bad controls in tact. Give me a zombie revenge styled RE, please.

I don't get this, you say its unfortunate that Res Evil games don't seem to change, then you say you want to see another typical Zombie Res Evil game.....

 

[Ooh-videogames]

Will devs ever use normal mapping on the GC at all?

 

[Fox5]

No amount of support was going to make Rare anywhere near as good as they were on the N64. You don't think MS fully support Rare? As most Nintendo fans said even before Rare left Nintendo, they were a shadow of there former selves. When they went to MS it was announced that they would have 4 games out for XBox by 2004. Here we are in 2004 and what have they released? They've released one decidedly average game for XBox.

True we'd probably never see another shooter from rare as good as perfect dark, but the remake of conker is turning out great, they seem to still have the nack for platformers, and have made some decent gba games. Also, they're incredibly good at graphics, which alone is enough reason to keep them around to garner some sales. And as I said above, starfox adventures is still better than a lot of what rare released on n64. Nintendo fanboys make rare out to seem worse than they are, just because they're not making games for gamecube.
BTW, I wasn't referring to just financial support, nintendo tends to work very closely with its 2nd parties, and that kind of talent has continually showed that they can turn basically any garbage company into something good, however nintendo has had to divide their time a lot more for gamecube(since they're releasing games more frequently) and why start over from scratch every system when you already have a fully trained company that you're used to working with and has hit homeruns far more than they struck out. And starfox adventures did surprisingly well, despite nintendo's abandonment of rare, certainly the starfox name isn't that strong, either people were attracted for the graphics or to the rare name.

I don't get this, you say its unfortunate that Res Evil games don't seem to change, then you say you want to see another typical Zombie Res Evil game.....

What? I said zombie revenge, a beat em up game on the dreamcast and in the arcades. It wasn't very good, but it was basically a sidescroller set in the house of the dead universe.

Will devs ever use normal mapping on the GC at all?

I'd say rare or factor 5 would have been the most likely to do that, and they've both stopped producing games for gamecube. You might see one or two normal maps scattered in a game, but you'll never see an entire game with normal maps on gamecube.

 

[zidane1strife]

Well, I didn't want to start a new topic for this(an update to my prior post in this thread), since this is not to relevant to a console discussion for now, so here goes:

http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/sneweegs.asp

New Technique Developed At UCSD For Deciphering
Brain Recordings Can Capture Thinking As It Happens


Because ICA can distinguish signals that are active at the same time, it makes it possible to identify the electrical signals in the brain that correspond to the brain telling the muscles to take an action —which in the paper was deciding whether or not to press a button in response to an image flashed on a computer screen—and to separate this signal from the signals the brain uses to evaluate the consequences of that action.

The future of computing interfaces is being laid right here...

 

[London Geezer]

The day when physical movements will not be needed and we will all be water-retentive-big-ass-obese geeks. Yay.