Nintendo GOing Forward.

[Globalisateur]

I doubt it. The issue is the 32MB of EDRAM. I'm not sure how reliably that can be manufactured even now. I suppose they could go to ESRAM as an alternative as long as they match the performance specs (which should be possible as the rumored bandwidth isn't that high, I think), but the I doubt they would get a significant cost savings in that case.

So we are back at square one:

Managment decision imposing Wii hardware backward compatibility -> EDRAM memory pool in order to easily emulate via hardware the 24MB main ram of Wii -> expensive relatively weak hardware that can't easily be cheapened in the future.

 

[Goodtwin]

So we are back at square one:

Managment decision imposing Wii hardware backward compatibility -> EDRAM memory pool in order to easily emulate via hardware the 24MB main ram of Wii -> expensive relatively weak hardware that can't easily be cheapened in the future.

Everything gets cheaper to manufacture as time goes on. So the price will continue to go down, perhaps not as substantially as it could have for the reasons you listed, but the price will drop over time thanks to mass production resulting in better yields, and very slow sales of the Wii U throughout 2013 definitely held that back.

As for Wii U losing support from games like COD and AC, as much as I have enjoyed COD on Wii U, I don't believe that those games really sold to many Wii U's. I think the sales figures would have been pretty much the same even if COD and AC never released on the console. Software sales are just so poor that I cant seem them resulting in to many Wii U purchases. I think this holds true going forward, Wii U would sell roughly the same number of units with or without those multi plat titles. Games like Mario Kart 8 are selling hardware. Smash Bros will sell hardware later this year. Hyrule Warriors is giving Wii U a boost in Japan, a territory that it was already doing better than their competition. Less competition for Wii U gamers dollars later this year probably isn't a bad thing for games like Bayonetta 2.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Everything gets cheaper to manufacture as time goes on. So the price will continue to go down, perhaps not as substantially as it could have for the reasons you listed, but the price will drop over time thanks to mass production resulting in better yields, and very slow sales of the Wii U throughout 2013 definitely held that back.

I don't know the yields to the Wii U's chips but they're made using a very old and very mature process. Don't count on a big discount on the chips there.
In fact, Nintendo might be struggling (paying more per chip than predicted) to keep the factories making the chips at all to keep up with the rather low demand.
Making a console with terrible hardware is costing them dearly on all fronts.

 

[Grall]

Yeah, wasn't there some talk about Nintendo having to ship off a manufacturing line from the sold Reneasas fab that used to produce wuugpus to some other fab so their console could continue to be produced? I'm sure that must have cost a huge pile of cash.

Usually, low demand and low volumes = high price, and ancient, quirky process probably doesn't help when the march of progress creates a greater and greater gap. I wonder if old wuu chips are still being made at 90nm though, has anyone cracked open a recent unit to have a look? wiicpu at 90nm was terribly small even as it was, at anything approaching a modern process it's probably pad-limited...

 

[Fourth Storm]

Yeah, wasn't there some talk about Nintendo having to ship off a manufacturing line from the sold Reneasas fab that used to produce wuugpus to some other fab so their console could continue to be produced? I'm sure that must have cost a huge pile of cash.

Usually, low demand and low volumes = high price, and ancient, quirky process probably doesn't help when the march of progress creates a greater and greater gap. I wonder if old wuu chips are still being made at 90nm though, has anyone cracked open a recent unit to have a look? wiicpu at 90nm was terribly small even as it was, at anything approaching a modern process it's probably pad-limited...

Yes, it appears that IBM did do at least one process shrink for the Wii CPU in later revisions. Not sure exactly which process though. The GPU seems to have stayed at 90nm, though, probably due to the 1t-SRAM.

The Renesas factory responsible for producing the Wuu GPU was sold to Sony at the beginning of this year, but they're still producing chips for Renesas on a contract basis for now. I would imagine, rather than pay for the machinery to be moved to a different factory (if Nintendo truly are the only ones who need that eDRAM), they'd simply manufacture all they need and work on accelerating their next gen console. With Wuu on track for 12m-15m lifetime sales, it should be a manageable situation. Of course, Renesas will probably end up moving that eDRAM machinery to a different plant anyway, if they cherish it so much. There have to be some automotive microcontrollers or whatnot that also use it.

That being said, yeah, the architecture will likely prevent Nintendo from cutting Wii U prices as aggressively as they need to.

 

[Cyan]

Miyamoto has said that Nintendo are aiming at leaving the casual crowd.

http://gamerant.com/nintendo-casual-vs-core-gamers/

"[These are] the sort of people who, for example, might want to watch a movie. They might want to go to Disneyland," he said.

"Their attitude is, 'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' It's kind of a passive attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing. They do not know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself [with more advanced games]."

Miyamoto's comments mark the first time a Nintendo executive, and a longstanding member on its board of directors, has publicly outlined intentions to shift away from casual customers.

In an age where Apple and Android smartphones have become the leading games platforms for the casual audience, Miyamoto says Nintendo no longer needs to reach out to those customers.

"In the days of DS and Wii, Nintendo tried its best to expand the gaming population," he said.

"Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives."

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Good luck trying to sell outdated hardware to hardcore gamers...

 

[BRiT]

Did Nintendo just commit business suicide?

 

[idsn6]

"Casual gamers (who were the driving factor behind our biggest home console hit by far) are pathetic. It is a good thing we do not have to make games for them now (as a result of our failure to retain this audience even though we tried to replicate our fad). I bet they taste sour, too."

 

[Sonic]

I don't know how to feel about those quotes. Is Miyamato himself tired of chasing after the casual market or is he speaking for the company as a whole? Insulting the people that bought the Wii en masse and allowing Nintendo to rake in the profits does not seem like a sound business move. There are better ways to articulate a desire to go in a different direction without alienating a large portion of your audience. I wonder if he will be reprimanded for these quotes or not.

Nintendo has been losing market share and total ownership gen after gen until the huge anomaly that was Wii. They tried to recapture that magic with Wii U and have failed on all fronts so far, except for the quality of their games generally remains very high to excellent. And now the pattern of Nintendo losing market share has resumed so really what direction can they take that the market isn't forcing them into? Do they hunker down and focus on Wii U and become a niche player and maybe being moderately profitable? Do they axe the system and start anew, but this time releasing a powerful console that might actually garner interest? Software only? Do they see themselves transitioning into doing QoL type programs and devices?

The only options I like are the company growing a pair of balls and releasing a powerful console or going software only. The one direction I wish them to not take is wasting money on ancient CPU and GPU tech.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

"Casual gamers (who were the driving factor behind our biggest home console hit by far) are pathetic. It is a good thing we do not have to make games for them now (as a result of our failure to retain this audience even though we tried to replicate our fad). I bet they taste sour, too."

Indeed. Bizarre. I like the way it was presented as if providing games for the casuals was Nintendo's obligation, and now they're relieved of that thanks to mobile. I guess there was some champaign popping when at the board meeting where it was announced, "Good news everyone. We finally don't have to do casual games any more!"

So what next? Hardcore games for a platform few own? A platform that doesn't have 3rd party titles so has to be the second console? Or a new platform?

 

[Rodéric]

Tranlsating is betraying.
I would assume the translation isn't quite accurately reflecting his thoughts.

It sounds more like he's sad many people just want to sit and be fed stuff passively, instead of trying to do something more interesting. (Needing thoughts and/or reflexes for exemple.)
[It's quite reminescent to me of games which are almost "push button for next cutscene", and I can only agree it's saddening.]
(People making board games or role playing games could also say the same, that they'd like more people to be active around a table rather than being fed passively whatever a TV screen is showing...)

I can understand that, and I doubt he's talking about people having played the Wii.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So what next? Hardcore games for a platform few own? A platform that doesn't have 3rd party titles so has to be the second console? Or a new platform?

I would really like to see a new console but I wouldn't buy it for a few years unless it launched with some must-play-right-now game like a 10/10 scoring Zelda. Consoles are an investment and I don't know if giving Nintendo money for a console that may also crash and burn would be a good investment.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Tranlsating is betraying.
I would assume the translation isn't quite accurately reflecting his thoughts.

You could be right there, as the talk of mobiles would be exactly that brain-dead tap to win style of game. So, "mobile has casual gaming (tap to win) covered. We'll focus on real games," is a possible root message. However, that's quite some translation error if that is indeed the message.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They've announced a GB style handheld upgrade.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...new-3ds-and-3ds-xl-designs-with-extra-buttons

3DS with a tiny right thumb nub above the face buttons, better 3D screen, and uprated (unspecified) processor required for some games. The name? "New 3DS". Ummmm, so Joe Consumer having bought an original 3DS a month ago walks into the store to buy the new Xenoblade Chronicles and is warned by the shop assistant it only plays on "New 3DS". "That's okay, mine's only a month old," says Joe Consumer.

What's wrong with a more obvious '3DS plus', or '3DS pro' or somesuch?

 

[Rodéric]

Looks like Nintendo is in serious need of someone to name products.
Wii U was abysmal by New 3DS is no better !

 

[McHuj]

I don't get this 3DS thing. I'm sure they're trying to do everything to stimulate demand as it's plummeting worldwide, but I can't see the new 3DS doing much. Maybe in Japan it will, I doubt the West will care one bit for it.

Even if they improved certain aspects, at the end of the day, it's still a 3DS with a very low res screen, dated internals, and awful ergonomics. I doubt the market is looking for more of the same.

 

[tuna]

Who would buy an old 3ds today? This is an incredibly incompetent hardware launch that might kill the 3ds as a platform.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I don't get this 3DS thing. I'm sure they're trying to do everything to stimulate demand as it's plummeting worldwide, but I can't see the new 3DS doing much. Maybe in Japan it will, I doubt the West will care one bit for it.

Even if they improved certain aspects, at the end of the day, it's still a 3DS with a very low res screen, dated internals, and awful ergonomics. I doubt the market is looking for more of the same.

Not... again... every handheld Nintendo ever made had competition from similar devices (much) more powerful then Nintendo, yet Nintendo always sold by far the most handhelds. The only other moderate success is the PSP.

Anyway how cares about hardware? The majority of smartphones sold is lower end devices, not high end, people still buy 100 million or so consoles every generation while pc's are much more powerful, Lynx, PSP, Vita etc all sold much less than the Gameboy/DS.

3DS might not be the fastest but its cheap and has tons of games available. For a lot of people that is more than enough.

Who would buy an old 3ds today? This is an incredibly incompetent hardware launch that might kill the 3ds as a platform.

Why? You had gameboy and then the gameboy color. You had the DS and then the DSi. You had the N64 and the N64 expansion pack that was needed for some games. I didn't hear anybody complain about those.

Though I guess the name could have been a little bit clearer. OTOH DS and DSi isn't exactly a obvious difference either.

Anyway I don't expect a lot of games to be new 3DS only.

Oh and those SNES color style buttons are awsome. IMO Nintendo should release a snes style version of every console/handheld they make.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Even if they improved certain aspects, at the end of the day, it's still a 3DS with a very low res screen, dated internals, and awful ergonomics. I doubt the market is looking for more of the same.

This is so very true. I just looked up the specs of 3DS to try and guestimate what a new CPU might bring, and dual core 268 MHz (+ whatever the ARM 9 is) and it can't even compare to a £50 2011 Galaxy Ace. As a portable gaming system it can't match even the fairly bottom end of the mobile market on raw performance. When you consider the asking price of these things, it's no wonder demand is dropping.

But this raises an interesting proposition. We've spoken about it before with home consoles, but it seems more appropriate for a portable. How's about annual updates? And if Nintendo wanted to be truly innovative, have the motherboard replaceable while keeping the other components for cheaper upgrades. It'd be a handheld that can offer core games for mobile play but also isn't poor value compared to smart phones that eclipse it in a couple of years?

Aw, who am I kidding. Ditch hardware and produce software still looks the smartest plan.