Nintendo confirms low price and no Hi Def for Revolution

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Powderkeg said:
I didn't say it wasn't suitable.

Why don't you stop being such a blind fanperson and actually address what I did say instead of making stuff up?
Wow. Wasn't only yesterday someone else was accusing me of being a Sony sixstar with nothing but vilified hatred for all things Nintendo? :LOL:
The PC also has the keyboard, but I don't guess it ever occured to you to map the other 2 DOF's to the keyboard, did it?
Not analogue, which means they're off or on, rather then a degree of freedom.

Forward, back, move left, move right, lean left, lean right, jump, duck, and a mouse to look up, down, left and right.

Yep, I can do all of that on a PC. In fact, I have a hard time remembering the last PC FPS where I didn't do all of that. What what does this have to do with my point?
I was talking about input modes. You said Revolution controller offers no more input options then existing methods, but it offers, by my reckoning, 8 analogue inputs versus a PCs 2. You can run forward and left and lean right perhaps, but on Revolution can you choose how much you run forwards, and left, and lean right.

A mouse can be and often is a 1:1 ratio of movment. If the mouse ball rotates 360 degrees you rotate 360 degrees in the game. I can adjust this to make it more or less depending on my own preferences.

But with the Revolution controller, you have no adjustment unless the game allows you one, and you are depending on the game to control your rotational speed.
Huh?! An analogue input provides a signal strength, and you map that onto a multiplier when you use it. The software receives a signal 'The controller is turned x degrees pitch, y degrees yaw, z degrees roll' etc and the developer decides how to use it. Will one degree of x rotation be mapped as to one degree of rotation in the game? Or five? Or allow a sensitivity slider for the gamer to choose? Exactly the same as a mouse or thumbstick or analogue flight yoke or steering wheel. When you say the Revolution's controller has no adjustment for sensitivity except in software, netiher does your mouse! You can't change the ball size in your mouse to change the ratio of distance to rotation. It's all done through software.

So, you look with the thumbstick, move with the controller, and aim with what? The thumbstick, since that's what controls your looking?
How's about you look and aim by pointing at what you want to look/shoot at?
And aiming with a thumbstick is supposed to be better than a mouse? If that was true than every gamepad already made is better than a mouse. Why is it most people prefer the mouse then?
Who said that? I never said that.

Turn 3 complete 360 spins in less than 1 second, and still get a per-pixel accuracy on aiming.
Why on EARTH do you want to do three 360 spins in a second? Still if you want to, have the down button on the Rev controller perform an instant 180 degree spin, and press it several times while still getting the benefit of a 'point and shoot' gun.

Not true. With a PC I have 3 adjustments to speed. There is in-game sensitivity which can limit the speed, which is exactly what you will get with the Revolution.

But, with the PC, I can also increase the sensitivity in the OS.
I can also adjust the sample rate of the hardware itself.

The end result is I can move faster than what the game was designed for, and yet still maintaining that per-pixel accuracy.

This is the whole reason why FPS fans have preferred the mouse/keyboard to any other controller for over a decade.
But those are three controls all affecting the same thing. As long as the game covers the needed range who cares? Nintendo's hardware isn't fundamentally limited by design. And TBH what you're asking to do sounds crazy anyway. A soldier in a battlefield won't be spinning around 3 turn in 1 second and getting perfect aim! Even though that sort of gameplay would be possible on Revolution I can't see much reason to bother. I'd rather have the position of the controller realistically mimcking my characters positioning, peeping up or around objects by moving the controller, looking around by turning the controller, pointing at targets to targets them, etc. If you want to stick to less realistic methods like only having a duck/stand button instead of being able to gauge how much to duck or stand, and a walk/run button instead of being able to decide gradients between sneaking, walking, jogging and running, that's fine. Personally, with my Nintendo Sixstar Glasses that i wear on days I'm not hating Nintendo and discrediting everything they do, I think an intuitive control system that fits into two hands offering easily accessible 8+ DOF analogue input is pretty whizzo. I've never liked the crazy 50+ controls of PC shooters.
 
Powderkeg said:
For you, I'll explain.

There are sensor bars placed on the top and side of your TV for the Revolution controller. The controller acts like a mouse as long as it's pointed somewhere within the confines of those sensors.

Once the controller it pointed outside of the sensor box (Beyond the edge of the TV screen) the game takes over and controls rotational speed.


If it didn't, 2 things would happen.

#1. In order to turn 180 degrees you would physically have to turn around and face away from the TV screen.

#2. There would be a single point forward. In otherwords, if forward was north in your game and you turned to the left, you (Or at least your hand) would have to stay turned. The only way you could point the controller at the TV again is if you turned back north in the game.
Obviously, for fps. style games, one of the buttons will have to be reserved for a "lift mouse" like function. Or alternatively you could pull slightly back on the controller to "lift it" from an imaginary surface.
dopefishzzz said:
I know It's not. BUT. We have 640 X 480 since what... 1995 ? Ever heard a word called "progress" ?

I just can't stand that low of a resolution anymore. It's plain ugly. No game can really stand out graphically at 640 X 480. And it looks even worse on HDTVs.

Point is, with High-Def, Ninentendo could have played in the fields of X360 and PS3.
BS! We have a looong way to go before 640x480 is "exhausted". As long as we are not able to do completely believable scenes in real-time, higher resolutions is like getting slightly better glasses; it's the same reality only a bit sharper.
Personally I'd much rather see better textures, lighting and geometry before higher resolution. As long as the output is progressive and updated at 60fps.
 
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when someone is constantly lowering the standards of the forum by trollings and derailing threads with schizophenic arguing, mods should ask themselves if he belongs to this place , maybe other forums would be more adequate for him.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Wow. Wasn't only yesterday someone else was accusing me of being a Sony sixstar with nothing but vilified hatred for all things Nintendo? :LOL:

I don't know about that, but unless you can either quote precisely where I said the controller wasn't suitable or retract your claim, I will accuse you of being a liar.


Not analogue, which means they're off or on, rather then a degree of freedom.

Irrelevent.

I was talking about input modes. You said Revolution controller offers no more input options then existing methods, but it offers, by my reckoning, 8 analogue inputs versus a PCs 2. You can run forward and left and lean right perhaps, but on Revolution can you choose how much you run forwards, and left, and lean right.

Again with your made up BS.

I NEVER said anything about input modes, or input options. Not once.

I only commented on one single aspect of control in one signe genre of game. Nothing more. And analog or digital, thumbstick or controller, button or trigger makes absolutely ZERO difference to what I said..

Huh?! An analogue input provides a signal strength, and you map that onto a multiplier when you use it. The software receives a signal 'The controller is turned x degrees pitch, y degrees yaw, z degrees roll' etc and the developer decides how to use it. Will one degree of x rotation be mapped as to one degree of rotation in the game? Or five? Or allow a sensitivity slider for the gamer to choose?[/quote]

Wrong.

On rotation specifically. Turning around in a circle in a FPS. There is only 1 input being discussed here, and it's incredibly different on the Revolution controller than a mouse.

Exactly the same as a mouse or thumbstick or analogue flight yoke or steering wheel. When you say the Revolution's controller has no adjustment for sensitivity except in software, netiher does your mouse!

No, mice are different. In a mouse, the "sensitivity" rate is how far the ball rotates translated into on-screen movement. The higher the sensitivity, the less ball movement it takes to achieve the same degree of in-game movement.

But the SPEED at which it moves is limited by one thing, and one thing only.

Your arm.

You can spin as fast as you can move your arm or wrist. Your only limitation on rotation speed is how quickly you can move.

Why on EARTH do you want to do three 360 spins in a second?

You've never played PC FPS's before, have you?

There is this tactic called Circle Strafing. Basically you rotate to the side as you run around your opponent in a circle, always keeping your gun pointed to the center of the circle. Often times, especially online, your opponent will do the same thing.

Now, the normal tactic to beating your opponent when both of you are circle strafing is to cut into his circle. In otherwords, you turn faster than him, and cut inside if his aiming point.

This normal, every day tactic is impossible using any other controller but a mouse or trackball. Joysticks, thumbsticks, and yes, your precious Revolution controller are all incapable of matching that rate of turn because they all have a maximum limit on how far the controller can be moved or rotate, and beyond that limit the speed or rotation remains constant.

What ends up happening is you and your opponent circle each other at the exact same rate, and instead of being a tactical fight you end up with a contest of simply who shoots first, or who has the biggest gun. You may as well not bother circle strafing at all, because there is no advantage to be gained by doing it.


Since all of these aspects seem to be beyond your grasp, perhaps you should not continue this debate until you have at least familiarized yourself with PC FPS gaming, and the tactics normally employed by it's fans, and the reason behind the controller prefences that exist in that specific genre.
 
Magnum PI said:
when someone is constantly lowering the standards of the forum by trollings and derailing threads with schizophenic arguing, mods should ask themselves if he belongs to this place , maybe other forums would be more adequate for him.

When a member cannot debate a point rationally without having to accuse one who disagrees of "trolling" perhaps he isn't mature enough to take part in these discussions.

There is one truth to life. Absolutely NOTHING is perfect. If you can't handle someone pointing out the flaws, that would be a problem with your own fragile little ego, not a problem with the other person.

If you ever have any doubts about my point why don't you try wandering into a PC-specific gaming forum, preferrably specializing in FPS's, and ask them if they would prefer the Revolution controller or their mouse for aiming and ask for their reasons. See what kind of answer you get.
 
For what it's worth, I'm surprised no one has done this. All I did was take some X360 images, rescale them to 480 widescreen (using linear interpolation to simulate FSAA), then upscaled them back using linear interpolation (to simulate scaling on a high-end HDTV), then did one with no interpolation (maybe some HDTV's don't interpolate?):

PD0 @ 720p:
http://www.ms.uky.edu/~jstrodtb/pcvsconsole/perfect-dark-zero.jpg
PD0 @ 480p w/ linear interpolation:
http://www.ms.uky.edu/~jstrodtb/pcvsconsole/perfect-dark-zero1.jpg
PD0 @ 480p w/o linear interpolation:
http://www.ms.uky.edu/~jstrodtb/pcvsconsole/perfect-dark-zero2.jpg

PGR3@ 720p:
http://www.ms.uky.edu/~jstrodtb/pcvsconsole/pgr3.jpg
@ 480p w/ interpolation:
http://www.ms.uky.edu/~jstrodtb/pcvsconsole/pgr31.jpg
@ 480p w/ no interpolation:
http://www.ms.uky.edu/~jstrodtb/pcvsconsole/pgr32.jpg

So assuming that Nintendo's claim of "no visible difference at 480p" claim is true (to be honest, I have my doubts...I think Revo will probably have less than 256 MB of RAM, possibly 128 MB), the graphics will be fine. Yeah, there's a visible difference, but it's not the nightmare doomsday scenario some of you guys are making it out to be.
 
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You know, it's really sad.

I have said something bad about all 3 systems. I've bagged on the 360 for it's lack of memory bandwidth, it's overpriced peripherals, the lack of a standard hard drive, and it's limited disk size. I've commented on the PS3's lack of efficiency in design, it's poor online plan, it's limitations on RAM usage, it's ugly controller, and it's probable price.

Why is it the only group of people who have little name-calling hissy fits over what I say are Nintendo fans?
 
Powderkeg, for what we know the Revolution controller works exactly like a mouse, only it can also measure depth and it doesn't require that you have a flat surface nearby.
For FPS. games the major difference is that you can not disconnect the reading of the movement by lifting the mouse when you run out of space, but that could easily be achieved, like I said in an earlier post, by pressing a button or doing a very small gesture with the controller.
 
That thread wasn't meant to discuss the Controller.
If you want to do so, feel free to create another thread about this very topic, in which YOU WILL PROPERLY EXPLAIN YOURSELF, ALL OF YOU.
Because the feeling I get from reading it is that none of you is commited to make his vision understood by the others.
(It looks like : it can, no it can't, yes it can, no it can't...)

On a side note, I fail to see how the Revolution Controller is any different from a mouse in the narrow field of FPS controls, since my mouse only travel in a small area, just like revolution's controller would only rotate to the limits of my wrist.
But as I said that's for another topic.
 
There are gyroscope mice for sale at Best Buy (and presumebly other places), they're just mice that work by tilting a little joystick thing.

And back in the days of DOS/SNES/Genesis, I had a gyroscopic joystick. It was hard to keep it centered (you could almost never stop moving), but I'd imagine a game made specifically for it wouldn't have the same problems. Not sure of precision, genesis and snes games were 2d anyhow, and it's not like the various doom clones I had on pc even supported aiming, let alone analog movement.
 
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