Ninja Theory's new game: Enslaved

[patsu]

Huh, is Serkis in Enslaved also ?

 

[Kittonwy]

No you can't !


...but Demon's Souls has no 'high' jump. You can leap back or roll, but no jump. You'll most likely die if you attempt a jump attack.

Demon's Souls has a proper, MANUAL block/counter system, Heavenly Sword doesn't.

 

[patsu]

Good catch ! I think proper blocking is more important than jumping. I remember I didn't quite understand the combat system in HS.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

also the most frustrating parts of the game.

That is what I think of Jumping in 75% of hack and slash games I play. It serves no purpose other than to frustrate the player by needlessly incorporating poor jumping mechanics with poor jumping puzzles in order to needlessly prolong the game.

Very very few games have properly incorporated jumping as an in game mechanic such that it felt natural in the flow of combat. Ninja Gaiden is one of the few that I can think of. The vast majority of other hack and slash feels like the jump was just tacked on because they needed to fill a "hack and slash checkbox."

On a sidenote, I do miss old school 2d sidescroller's with jump mechanics. But overall the jump mechanic hasn't translated nearly as well to 3d (1st or 3rd person) when used for "skill jumps," combat, or jumping puzzles. But there is always the VERY rare game that manages to pull it off.

Regards,
SB

 

[betan]

Good catch ! I think proper blocking is more important than jumping. I remember I didn't quite understand the combat system in HS.

HS had proper blocking. It had three types of enemy attacks, regular, heavy and unblockable.
Having to change stance and visual clues for the last two types made it much more interesting than most other games.

Counter system too, while nothing special, was more usable than DS in practice.

It had pretty decent combat system overall, though way underused as button mashing was sufficient more often than not.

I have to say though, HS had other design issues, game always felt short of sum of its parts.

 

[patsu]

HS had proper blocking. It had three types of enemy attacks, regular, heavy and unblockable.
Having to change stance and visual clues for the last two types made it much more interesting than most other games.

Counter system too, while nothing special, was more usable than DS in practice.

It had pretty decent combat system overall, though way underused as button mashing was sufficient more often than not.

Yes, I remember the colored blocking but as I recall, I usually failed to block or didn't bother to block. The enemies also didn't do much damage. I think in DS, we usually roll or hold the shield up for extended period. I can't remember if HS allows me to do the latter anymore. I think it's all about timing, or did I remember it wrongly (again) !

I have to say though, HS had other design issues, game always felt short of sum of its parts.

For grunt fight, I have to agree.

I the "acting", Kai and her SIXAXIS archery, and the other bosses.

 

[Prophecy2k]

That is what I think of Jumping in 75% of hack and slash games I play. It serves no purpose other than to frustrate the player by needlessly incorporating poor jumping mechanics with poor jumping puzzles in order to needlessly prolong the game.

Very very few games have properly incorporated jumping as an in game mechanic such that it felt natural in the flow of combat. Ninja Gaiden is one of the few that I can think of. The vast majority of other hack and slash feels like the jump was just tacked on because they needed to fill a "hack and slash checkbox."

On a sidenote, I do miss old school 2d sidescroller's with jump mechanics. But overall the jump mechanic hasn't translated nearly as well to 3d (1st or 3rd person) when used for "skill jumps," combat, or jumping puzzles. But there is always the VERY rare game that manages to pull it off.

Regards,
SB

Absolutely!!

Give us a hack & slash game that animates and looks as good as Uncharted 2 and i'll love whichever dev puts it out there forever ;-)

To be honest, even though it's not strictly a hack & slash game, i actually loved the fluidity of movement and combat in Assassin's Creed 2. I'd like more action games that try to do their gameplay a bit more realistically, while still being able to be flashy and carry that kind of martial flare that makes a player feel invincible when he/she has invested time to learn the game.

Although simple, Assassin's Creed 2's combat mechanics were for me very very satisfying, and together with the awesome parkour and platforming i'd say it was one of my favourite games this gen in the way it handles melee combat and platforming.

I wouldn't say that it should be the natural evolution of all hack & slash games, but i'd certainly love a few more like it ;-)

Patsu, i've yet to play Demon Souls as it's just come out here in Europe not too recently (i was deprived of it's majesty for far too long)... that's defintely one of my next purchases.

I'm keen to see some gameplay footage of Enslaved though

 

[Kittonwy]

Absolutely!!

Give us a hack & slash game that animates and looks as good as Uncharted 2 and i'll love whichever dev puts it out there forever ;-)

To be honest, even though it's not strictly a hack & slash game, i actually loved the fluidity of movement and combat in Assassin's Creed 2. I'd like more action games that try to do their gameplay a bit more realistically, while still being able to be flashy and carry that kind of martial flare that makes a player feel invincible when he/she has invested time to learn the game.

Although simple, Assassin's Creed 2's combat mechanics were for me very very satisfying, and together with the awesome parkour and platforming i'd say it was one of my favourite games this gen in the way it handles melee combat and platforming.

I wouldn't say that it should be the natural evolution of all hack & slash games, but i'd certainly love a few more like it ;-)

Patsu, i've yet to play Demon Souls as it's just come out here in Europe not too recently (i was deprived of it's majesty for far too long)... that's defintely one of my next purchases.

I'm keen to see some gameplay footage of Enslaved though

Didn't like how Ass Creed 2 did parkour, totally clunky, combat was just a matter of countering, the AI isn't exactly smart. Demon Souls' combat is actually more visceral.

 

[Rolf N]

Yes, I remember the colored blocking but as I recall, I usually failed to block or didn't bother to block.

You automatically block. As long as you don't attack or move, Nariko will defend against all blue attacks. If you're in speed stance, all green attacks are automatically blocked. Heavy stance blocks all orange attacks.

I much prefer how God Of War/Devil May Cry handle blocking, where it gives you the cue that you may counter if you timed it right. You can still turtle in God Of War, but there are rewards for you if you don't. There's no such voluntary risk in Heavenly Sword: you either hit the counter prompt fast enough or you don't, but you're turtling to get there all the same.

I also didn't really see the necessity in the huge amount of different moves and combos you can do, between the three stances. Seems to me like a bunch of red herrings in there, and I don't like that in my games.

 

[nightshade]

I much prefer how God Of War/Devil May Cry handle blocking, where it gives you the cue that you may counter if you timed it right.

DMC doesn't has Blocking & counter attack, not unless you use Dante's Royal Guard...and you'll lose health even if you block while using Royal Guard. Being effective in DMC means evading a lot & trying to be as aggressive as possible with attacks & juggles so that you don't give your enemies any chance to hit you.

 

[Rolf N]

DMC doesn't has Blocking, not unless you use Dante's Royal Guard. .And you'll lose health even if you block while using Royal Guard. It doesn't has any counter mechanics either.

I could swear I blocked in DMC3 and DMC4. There's these grim reaper dudes that violently break your block, even. They appear in the second "mission", just outside the first room, in DMC3.

 

[nightshade]

Nope you can't block unless you use Royal Guard, should be something else that you are referring to.

 

[Rolf N]

Nope you can't block unless you use Royal Guard, should be something else that you are referring to.

You're right, I just went on Gamefaqs to look up the control scheme
I'm probably remembering the "locking of swords" where when you and an enemy attack at the same time, the swords will clash and no damage will be dealt. You could do that with the reaper, and after three or four hits he'd overpower and stun you.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I also didn't really see the necessity in the huge amount of different moves and combos you can do, between the three stances. Seems to me like a bunch of red herrings in there, and I don't like that in my games.

That's a common trait among pretty much all games like that, though. Not only can you beat all the GoW games with pretty much only Plume of Prometheus (square, square, triangle), it's actually beneficial on higher difficulty levels because you can always cancel into a block or roll. Same with Ninja gaiden's Izuna Drop. At least HS encourages you to use guard breaking attacks unless you want to sit there waiting for a counter opportunity all day long in the later sections of the game.
One-on-one fighting games, especially the 3d ones, are just as bad in this regard.

Another thing is the weapon selection in GoW. I never really felt the need to use anything besides the Blades or the Cestus. Fighting games always give you lots of options. Some of them tend to be slightly helpful at best, most of them however are just confusing.

 

[patsu]

You automatically block. As long as you don't attack or move, Nariko will defend against all blue attacks. If you're in speed stance, all green attacks are automatically blocked. Heavy stance blocks all orange attacks.

Well, my Nariko was always moving. I don't think I mastered the blocking. In fact, I felt that neither the grunts nor Nariko were good at killing. We danced around a lot but the Heavenly Sword didn't seem very effective at spilling blood.

 

[Kittonwy]

DMC doesn't has Blocking & counter attack, not unless you use Dante's Royal Guard...and you'll lose health even if you block while using Royal Guard. Being effective in DMC means evading a lot & trying to be as aggressive as possible with attacks & juggles so that you don't give your enemies any chance to hit you.

That's not true. If you time your blocks you don't lose health at all, and you can block EVERY attack, even boss attacks (no unblockable attacks in DMC3), both while on the ground or in the air, in addition it allows you to build up your gauge to deal MASSIVE DAMAGE, timing your release allows you to take 1/3-1/2 of a boss' health if you've filled your gauge. Royal Guard is by far the best style, if you have the skill to time the blocks, DMC3 basically telegraphs every attack both through animations and through sound, the higher the difficulty, the more effective Royal Guard becomes, because you're no longer chipping away at a boss' health bar, you're taking massive chunks off of it.

 

[liolio]

Two vids I & II (possibly already linked) and a bunch of screens.

I'm pretty interest in this title.
On the tech side the game runs UE3,no? It's strange captures and vids are pretty much free of the usual "UE3 artifacts".

 

[Billy Idol]

Two vids I & II (possibly already linked) and a bunch of screens.

I'm pretty interest in this title.
On the tech side the game runs UE3,no? It's strange captures and vids are pretty much free of the usual "UE3 artifacts".

Thanks for the link!
I still wonder why they go for UE3.
I am curious to see if they can incorporate AA as well?!

 

[Billy Idol]

BTW, a question regarding licencing engines:

When you license the engine, do you get access to the source code?
Is it allowed to alter the engine and modify it?

 

[nightshade]

Looking at how Uibsoft have made so many iteration of LEAD engine which is nothing but a heavily modified UE2.5 ...I'd say maybe. Also is the Anvil engine something that Ubisoft built totally from scratch or is it another iteration of LEAD ?