NextGen Audio: Tempest Engine, Project Acoustics, Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, DTS X

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by MistaPi, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    It powers Xbox spatial audio, so any game running with that option enabled is using SHAPE. Some games are developed to use spatial audio directly, others are "upscaled".
     
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  2. Jay

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    Believe shape was the audio block, so pretty much anything that makes a sound uses it to some degree i suspect.
     
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  3. Shifty Geezer

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    Shape contains 4 DSPs and ran audio decompression and mixing alongside voice recognition.
     
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  4. Silent_Buddha

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    So, finally some information about the hardware audio engines (3 of them) from MS Hot Chips presentation.

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/1599...ft-xbox-series-x-system-architecture-600pm-pt

    09:13PM EDT - MS created Audio engines - 3 engines, CFPU2, MOVAD, LOGAN

    09:13PM EDT - CFPU2 for audio convolution, FFT, reverb

    09:14PM EDT - such as Project Acoustics to model 3D audio sources

    09:14PM EDT - MOVAD - hyper real-time hardware audio decoder

    09:14PM EDT - >300x channels decode at once

    09:14PM EDT - best trade off codec, so made in hardware

    09:15PM EDT - >100dB signal noise ratio

    09:15PM EDT - HW realtime real-time matched to decode based on sampling

    09:15PM EDT - Logan is offering also better offload in traditional modes

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  5. Lalaland

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    OK so CFPU2 is doing all the audio processing, MOVAD is the engine for loading audio samples for CFPU2 and LOGAN is MOVAD's decoding engine? Or have I completely misunderstood this (wish there was a slide dedicated to the audio). Also what is "HW realtime real-time matched to decode based on sampling"?

    Edit: I read real good apparently, there is a slide but it's the same info
     
    #165 Lalaland, Aug 19, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  6. Rurouni

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    Based on the slide, I think the main difference between MOVAD and LOGAN is that one for decoding Opus and one for XMA (Xbox version of WMA?)
     
  7. Lalaland

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    Wow, two separate decode engines? I'm not seeing why they couldn't be combined but people are rarely profligate with silicon so there must be a good reason
     
  8. Allandor

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    If it is more or less fixed function, than it is really hard to combine.
    This is why the fixed function compression of the PS5 & the new xbox won't be ported over to the PC. You will never achieve optimal compression with fixed function compression/decompression blocks. And if you alter the algorithm so it is more efficient you are again on the CPU and can no longer use the fixed function hardware (except if the new algorithm can be done before or after the fixed function units work).
     
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  9. BRiT

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  10. Silent_Buddha

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    That was great, it's good to see research being put into modeling sound waves again. It's been so sad the past 20 years that sound has basically been dead in games.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  11. goonergaz

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    So Sony have released details on 3D compatibility;

    https://blog.playstation.com/2020/1...&utm_campaign=Feed:+PSBlog+(PlayStation.Blog)

    Long story short, it seems all headphones will work via the controller and all USB 'dongle' style headphones should work.

    So the question is; something like the Astro A50 which use optical (which PS5 doesn't have) - does anyone know if a USB DAC would work? I was watching someone used one to convert the audio as they bought a slim (which also doesn't have optical) - so I'm assuming it should work...just want to know so I can be confident day one :)
     
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  12. BRiT

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    Trying to find older posts about this. Somewhere it was reported for most headsets there will be firmware updates for Xbox and a mix of adapters or firmware updates for PlayStation 5.

    Found it: https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2157080/
    As to your specific question, I dont see why it wouldn't work with any audio source.

     
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  13. goonergaz

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    Thanks but the issue is A50s are optical, the PS5 doesn’t have optical and the 3D output will only be put out to headphones (not TV).

    So my initial idea was to take the optical out of my TV for everything so headphones always have the TV sound, but that won’t carry the 3D audio.

    Anyway, I’ve been looking and I think my best option will be the new SteelSeries Arctis 7X - that’s compatible with all the consoles via a USB dongle, I plan to have a USB switch for the dongle with everything plugged into that so I can select which console I’m using and the headphones should switch.
     
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  14. novcze

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    Playstation Blog article was quite unclear. Can't we connect headphones to TV/monitor to get 3D sound, because PS5 will not send 3D over HDMI? That would be bad.
     
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  15. manux

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    I don't believe hrtf implementation would send "3d audio".PS5 would use user specific hrtf to process audio before audio is sent to headphones. That audio would appear as 3d despite it being 2 channels only(you have only 2 ears, 2 channels is enough with perfect hrtf). Sony's plan is to support external speakers setups later. Perhaps additionally there is some generic 3d audio solution for legacy systems that doesn't use hrtf but it likely would be way inferior when compared to heaphones with user specific hrtf.
     
  16. novcze

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    I asked if these 2 channels could be sent also over HDMI to TV/monitor because they also have headphone output. Playstation Blog suggest that we are limited to USB, wireless or via DualSense.
     
  17. manux

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    That should be trivial to fix in sw if it doesn't work out of the box. That said, at least I wouldn't want to route audio through tv if I can avoid it.
     
  18. novcze

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    We can go all digital through TV directly to DAC, because most TVs have optical out.
     
  19. manux

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    If sony is at all smart they would just have headphone setting that can be enabled. Then whatever audio user takes out would be the 2 channel hrtf processed output. That would allow the audio to go through correctly no matter what output/chain of devices is used. If user wants to have 5.1 or whatnot setup then choose that from settings.
     
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  20. goonergaz

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    I personally thought it was very clear and I thought I summed it up quite well.

    The issue with TV sound is Sony clearly state 3D audio is not ready for TVs yet - as such they won’t send the 3D signal. Once TVs are supported then the optical out should be fine.
     
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