Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

[bitsandbytes]

That article makes no sense. AMD based consoles and AMD discrete graphic hardware basically share a common architecture. The semi custom business allows AMD to leverage its core designs outside of its traditional market which is basically PC hardware. It’s why it’s called “semi-custom”.

“Navi” has been AMD’s PC roadmap for years. If AMD wanted cards for PC gamers then taking the design used for consoles and creating discrete PC gaming cards would be a simple straight forward low cost endeavor. You don’t need a ton of engineers to pull that off. But PC gpus are becoming less about gaming and more about compute and datacenters. It would make more sense if leaders in the RTG groups felt they didn’t have enough man power to create cryptomining or AI monsters that competed readily with Nvidia.

Navi isn’t delayed because of Sony, if anything it’s delayed because of 7 nm. GCN based PC cards came well before GCN based consoles and it literally had no negative effect on the console market. There would be no point in delaying an architecture for a console.

I haven't followed the in's and out's of this story over the years (the article links to a OCP article from over 2 years ago) but the following two paragraphs is what intrigue me which involve PS5 directly (if true)

It turns out that Lisa Su was focused primarily on bringing back AMD’s CPU side of things, and establishing a strong semi-custom GPU side. Maintaining leadership in the descrete graphics market (gamers) is a costly business and with the finite amount of resources the company had, something had to give.

Lisa packaged the graphics department neatly into Radeon Technologies Group and gave control of that to Raja Koduri, but at the same time devoted 2/3rds of the talent on-hand for RTG to develop the next semi-custom solution – which was Navi for Sony. The P&L of RTG was also not handed over to the group head and that meant they were effectively left with 1/3rd of the engineering talent devoted to making a graphics card for gamers and almost no control over their own finances.

If true then 2/3rds of RTG working on PS5 would explain why Raja did what he did with Polaris and why they haven't brought a new proper high-end GPU out for so long?

I'm sure not everything here is true but there isn't smoke without some fire too.

 

[vipa899]

But PC gpus are becoming less about gaming and more about compute and datacenters.

Strange if thats happening in a growing pc gaming market. Pc gaming never has been as big as its now.
Current gen can exist longer cause hardware doesnt advance as fast as in previous gens (ps2, ps3). Games still look nice 2018 on 2013 pc and console hardware.

 

[dobwal]

Strange if thats happening in a growing pc gaming market. Pc gaming never has been as big as its now.
Current gen can exist longer cause hardware doesnt advance as fast as in previous gens (ps2, ps3). Games still look nice 2018 on 2013 pc and console hardware.

The growth of PC gaming doesn’t change the fact that gpu design is not simply focused just on graphics anymore.

 

[ultragpu]

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-plans-announce-next-xbox-next-year



He is in trouble

Unless MS want to launch it by end of 2019 with a full E3 announcement in prior, I doubt they'll announce it so early if they want to maintain the rumored 2020 launch. All in all 2019 is still possible for them if MS want to beat Sony to the punch.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Controlled leak?

Nah, that'd certainly impact Xbox One X sales. The question is did he get it wrong, or was he just wrong to say it?

 

[SedentaryJourney]

Nah, that'd certainly impact Xbox One X sales. The question is did he get it wrong, or was he just wrong to say it?

Time will tell. Microsoft are definitely trying to walk back the story citing a misunderstanding/mistranslation, and yet they're also chiefly responsible for a lot of the next gen noise this E3.

I get the feeling that they may actually be ahead of Sony in designing their next gen console and could potentially launch something in late 2019. Sony don't have the same pressing need to reset the generation so they can push their launch out til 2020/2021.

The only thing that isn't consistent with this theory is launching in 2019 with a Vega based console would basically kill any chance of MS retaining its performance lead for the launch phase of next gen, and Microsoft made a very strong promise during their press conference to retaining that advantage.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Time will tell. Microsoft are definitely trying to walk back the story citing a misunderstanding/mistranslation, and yet they're also chiefly responsible for a lot of the next gen noise this E3.

I don't think Microsoft said anything that anybody who understands how consoles are researched, spec'd, designed and produced, didn't already know.

I doubt Microsoft's process differs great to Sony, who have explained a bunch on a few occasions (most recently Mark Cerny's 'The road to PS4' presentation at Gamelabs 2013) that research of the next-next-gen console begins before the next-gen console has actually launched, i.e. Sony began research for PS4 before PS3 was even on the market. Because even then they can seek a lot of dev feedback as devs will have been working on hardware (or target hardware) for a year or more.

Why did Phil Spencer say what he said? Only Phil Spencer knows. He does have a reputation for 'firing from the hip'.

 

[AzBat]

Why did Phil Spencer say what he said? Only Phil Spencer knows. He does have a reputation for 'firing from the hip'.

Yep

Tommy McClain

 

[eastmen]

Time will tell. Microsoft are definitely trying to walk back the story citing a misunderstanding/mistranslation, and yet they're also chiefly responsible for a lot of the next gen noise this E3.

I get the feeling that they may actually be ahead of Sony in designing their next gen console and could potentially launch something in late 2019. Sony don't have the same pressing need to reset the generation so they can push their launch out til 2020/2021.

The only thing that isn't consistent with this theory is launching in 2019 with a Vega based console would basically kill any chance of MS retaining its performance lead for the launch phase of next gen, and Microsoft made a very strong promise during their press conference to retaining that advantage.

My guess would be 2019 = xbox one x s . A smaller xbox one x with cost reductions in it.

 

[Esrever]

My guess would be 2019 = xbox one x s . A smaller xbox one x with cost reductions in it.

the xbox one x is already small tho

 

[turkey]

My guess would be 2019 = xbox one x s . A smaller xbox one x with cost reductions in it.

I would think that's a branding nightmare, I would assume they cost reduce but no name change or fanfare. I am not sure I see a redesign either, it's already small. Reducing the complexity of the cooling and hovis method as well as a cheaper Apu would be good for them. if they shrink the case it probably errodes these savings when the console is already small.

 

[BRiT]

If you watch the next days episode of Inside Xbox where they talk with Phil Spencer, you will hear exactly why he touched upon next-gen development.

I think it was Monday, June 11th episode near the end.

 

[bitsandbytes]

If you watch the next days episode of Inside Xbox where they talk with Phil Spencer, you will hear exactly why he touched upon next-gen development.

To clarify you mean tomorrow (14th)? Sounds intriguing.

 

[BRiT]

To clarify you mean tomorrow (14th)? Sounds intriguing.

I think it was Monday, June 11th. Its near the end of the episode from what I remember. Will try to fins it again when I get the time.

 

[bitsandbytes]

I found the video BRiT. He doesn't really say much. Just that he wanted to let the console fans know that consoles are important to them and another console is coming and that it being the most powerful is important to him/them.

Not sure that would warrant him saying that so publicly at E3 this year if it is really far off? Very odd!

 

[BRiT]

What I heard or took from it, in addition to what you said, is also … Despite all the nifty video streaming and others saying consoles will no longer exist, that MS still values consoles and the console experience enough to continue developing them.

 

[rokkerkory]

PS5 to have discrete Navi GPU?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...nys-playstation-5-vega-suffered/#60a34a7824fd

Speaking to industry sources this week under conditions of anonymity, I've learned that the PS5 will use both AMD's Zen and Navi graphics architectures. What isn't clear is whether the PS5 will incorporate a beefy SoC (system on a chip) or use separate Ryzen and Navi-based components.

Right now little is known about AMD's Navi graphics architecture, other than the fact it will use the 7nm process. That detail, however, is important. As it has done numerous times with its semi-custom clients, AMD has a solid history of developing integrated and discrete GPUs with low power envelopes perfect for a console.

 

[Shortbread]

Which brings us to, in my eyes, the more interesting revelation. According to my sources, Navi isn't just inside the Sony PS5; it was created for Sony. The vast majority of AMD and Sony's Navi collaboration took place while Raja Koduri -- Radeon Technologies Group boss and chief architect -- was at AMD.

 

[bitsandbytes]

Do you think there is much/any truth to the story, Shortbread?

 

[SedentaryJourney]

Why did Phil Spencer say what he said? Only Phil Spencer knows. He does have a reputation for 'firing from the hip'.

It looks like there are two camps this E3. There are the companies who are eager to get the conversation about next gen started right now. Bethesda announced two next gen titles; Microsoft showed off a potential cross gen Halo, confirmed that they're far along in the design of an Xbox one successor, and closed out their conference with Cyberpunk 2077 which is confirmed cross-gen.

Then there's EA, Ubisoft, and Sony who are trying to keep the genie in the bottle. None of their conferences made any mention of next gen, even though I think BGE2 is definitely next gen exclusive.