Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

[bitsandbytes]

PS3 emulation seems unlikely. PS1, 2 and 4 are definitely on the cards - 1 and 2 are already emulated on PS4, just locked away, and PS4 on PS5 seems inevitable given assumed hardware similarities and patents regards BC. However, Sony are non-committal I guess because they want to be open to any hardware. What if an option becomes available for a paradigm shift in hardware that breaks compatibility but moves gaming forwards a significant jump? If you promise BC, you have to give up on that option which Sony won't do.

If PS5 doesn't have PS4 BC, expect realtime raytracing everywhere!

Even if you are right here wouldn't all this be a done deal by now (hardware locked down) even if PS5 is 2020?

The Sony BC thing puzzles me in all honestly from Mark Cerny telling DF that BC even with PS4/Pro was hard and how compatibility between AMD CPU/GPU gens isn't guaranteed to Jim Ryan basically mocking those that request full PS BC.

If all the negative talk Sony have said over the last couple of years is a delaying tactic while they work on it so they can announce it at the reveal it will be a really odd way of going about it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Things are happening, Bethesda's Starfield has been announced as a next gen game and apparently Microsoft next gen console is code named Scarlet.

I only just watched the end of the Bethesda conference 20 minutes ago and completely missed this. I was sure you were mistaken, so quick replay and damn. Todd Howard said it.

I was so intently listening for the words "Starfield" that I complete ignore the whole sentence: "We have also been working on... a brand new, next generation, single player game. But this one is in an all new epic franchise".

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If all the negative talk Sony have said over the last couple of years is a delaying tactic while they work on it so they can announce it at the reveal it will be a really odd way of going about it.

If I mentioned Chief Engineer Scotty on the Starship Enterprise, would that mean anything to you?

 

[bitsandbytes]

If I mentioned Chief Engineer Scotty on the Starship Enterprise, would that mean anything to you?

Not...really You are going to have to spell it out for me!

 

[AlNom]

Not...really You are going to have to spell it out for me!

Moral of the story is to underpromise.

...and then when you deliver, everyone still thinks you're a miracle worker even though it was actually a cakewalk.

 

[bitsandbytes]

Moral of the story is to underpromise.

...and then when you deliver, everyone still thinks you're a miracle worker even though it was actually a cakewalk.

OIC. Shifty should have quoted the under promise, over deliver line from my post earlier today. I might have got it then!

Saying that Sony haven't been under promising, they have arguably been dismissive about BC/FC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Saying that Sony haven't been under promising, they have arguably been dismissive about BC/FC.

Precisely.

 

[bitsandbytes]

Precisely.

This makes zero sense to me. You don't upset the fan base with very negative and dismissive comments about BC (Jim Ryan TIME article) and then at the reveal of the next console come out with: of course we have BC, why wouldn't we?

That isn't the way you go about under promising and over delivering IMO.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You don't say, "of course we have BC." You say, "we didn't think it was possible as it's technically far too complex, but our engineers worked night and day and managed somehow to make it happen." Then your fans think you the greatest ever for accomplishing the impossible. Also, if you can't pull it off, you didn't over-promise and under-deliver which is the worst PR position to be in.

 

[bitsandbytes]

You don't say, "of course we have BC." You say, "we didn't think it was possible as it's technically far too complex, but our engineers worked night and day and managed somehow to make it happen." Then your fans think you the greatest ever for accomplishing the impossible. Also, if you can't pull it off, you didn't over-promise and under-deliver which is the worst PR position to be in.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't feel this is what Sony are playing at. I think they really don't want to waste their effort in providing complete PS BC and possibly FC like Xbox.

Their focus is on PS5 and probably basic PS4 BC at best if little effort is required due to the same base tech.

I do hope some game sites question Sony execs about future BC at E3 after Phil Spencer's comments.

 

[bgroovy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft tries for 2019 to be the first next gen console.

Spencer claimed their goal was always to have the most powerful hardware going forward. They can't hope to live up to that unless they wait to see Sony's effort.

There was a leak of an image on the PS store that said something like “Best of PS3”, but that hasn’t materialized into anything. That being said, PC PS3 emulation is actually to the point of running some games, so it seems plausible for a PS5 of the future, at least.

That menu showed the exact options in the PlayStation Store on PS3 right now. They use an identical visual treatment currently. So it was either photoshopped, or a glitch that caused the PS3 version of the store to load in error on a PS4.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is not a thread for discussing always online consoles. I'll remove this last bit of chatter as OT.

 

[chris1515]

https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/161232/microsofts-next-gen-xbox-will-arrive-2020

Brad Sams from thurrot.com website say next Xbox will arrive in 2020

 

[McHuj]

Project Scarlet described as a family of devices ... Xbox 2 S and X launching simultaneously?


And there was this article in the Navi thread mentioning that Navi was being built for Sony:

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-navi-gpu-roadmap-cost-zen/

Here is a fun fact: Vega was designed primarily for Apple and Navi is being designed for Sony – the PS5 to be precise.

This meant that the graphics department had to be tied directly to the roadmap that these semi-custom applications followed. Since Sony needed the Navi GPU to be ready by the time the PS5 would launch (expectedly around 2020) that is the deadline they needed to work on.

Kind of aligns with what Charlie mentioned about Navi (except the dates).

 

[AlNom]

Project Scarlet described as a family of devices ... Xbox 2 S and X launching simultaneously?

Perhaps not an S vs X differential, but if it's more than just a difference of storage options, they could potentially still look at binned APUs. I know some folks here have been against that idea because it's not a big enough gap, but... I feel that's missing the point of tiered/binned SKUs, and presenting options.

Certainly there are extra validation costs, but I don't think it'd be feasible to try to launch a single super powered SKU (MS's committment to performance) at a loss or high cost-of-entry when the mass market is very much in the hands of the competition.

On the developer side of things, MS's narrative has been pushing dynamic scaling (GPU-side) for years now, and they've at least demonstrated their internal accomplishments with One S (GPU-upclock), and OneX (scaled up HW & clocks).

 

[Xbat]

I wonder if we can read anything into the 2/3 of the engineers getting Navi ready for Sony? As in Microsoft is using a design coming out later or more mature tech.

 

[anexanhume]

Project Scarlet described as a family of devices ... Xbox 2 S and X launching simultaneously?


And there was this article in the Navi thread mentioning that Navi was being built for Sony:

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-navi-gpu-roadmap-cost-zen/



Kind of aligns with what Charlie mentioned about Navi (except the dates).

I don’t get the point of an X/Pro type SKU at launch. The console generation is about redefining a new technical baseline. It should be the best hardware you can put forward in a console budget. If you can launch a significantly more powerful unit alongside it that is just $100/$200 more, you probably weren’t on the optimal spot on the performance/price curve, IMO.

 

[AlNom]

I don’t get the point of an X/Pro type SKU at launch. The console generation is about redefining a new technical baseline. It should be the best hardware you can put forward in a console budget. If you can launch a significantly more powerful unit alongside it that is just $100/$200 more, you probably weren’t on the optimal spot on the performance/price curve, IMO.

Think of it as producing the "best" @ mass market prices, but then offering a supercharged edition for the early adopter/hardcore fans.

 

[anexanhume]

Think of it as producing the "best" @ mass market prices, but then offering a supercharged edition for the early adopter/hardcore fans.

I think they risk being accused of milking their fan base with this approach.

To switch gears, apparently Navi is post GCN: https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-navi-gpu-roadmap-cost-zen/

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don’t get the point of an X/Pro type SKU at launch. The console generation is about redefining a new technical baseline. It should be the best hardware you can put forward in a console budget. If you can launch a significantly more powerful unit alongside it that is just $100/$200 more, you probably weren’t on the optimal spot on the performance/price curve, IMO.

You design the best console you can at the typical mainstream price. You then provide a better, higher-margin product to sell to a subset who are willing to pay more. You maximise your profits this way.

Think of it like a $500 8 GB phone and a $600 16 GB phone - the cost to add double the storage is nothing but some will pay more for it.

As Al* suggests, binning increases profitability. You can have a cost-effective solution with 4 disabled CUs, and then a premium for the lucky silicon that has no defects. If you don't have this higher tier, you can't charge extra for fully working chips and have to blow fuses to gimp them down to the baseline.

The trick will be getting the right top-end device, not stupidly expensive but different enough to be worth the added price. I have no idea what sort of premium gamers might pay for. If the baseline is $400, is $500 worth it for 10% more juice? 20% more juice? Would they go as high as $600 and what for?

I think they risk being accused of milking their fan base with this approach.

Every other consumer product has different models at different prices for different consumers, from TVs to toasters. Why would the economics-of-consoles exist in its own space where consumers behave fundamentally differently?