Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

[KeanuReeves]

How low will the battery life be then?

I don't understand this sentiment.

Of all the gaming companies to implement a camera, I would say Sony is best suited for it for various reasons such as their big business in the field of creating camera sensors.
Also, cameras don't require input at all times so they can just shut it off if they want to. Maybe they just didn't consider that a possibility with the touchpad back when they designed it and will put a mandate on getting that done for the PS5 infrastructure. So, in other words, the devs have to basically enable the inputs to use them.

Now while in use I can definitely see that battery life could be a concern, especially if they go with the touchscreen to replace the touchpad. Personally, I won't mind since I always play with my controller connected, but I could see it would be annoying for VR use. Maybe they have a built-in battery for the VR headset so that any controllers can be hooked up to it at any time.

 

[London Geezer]

Rumour is that PS5 will have built in VR box, surely that will cost more than a camera?

Maybe the PSV is IN the VR headset! *runaway*

 

[lefantome]

The redditor that first mentioned the Sony skipping E3 has more claims. The most interesting one is that both PSVR2 and DS5 will have built-in cameras for inside-out tracking.

PSVR2 mention has sense, but DS5 mention is strange. Console holders earn a lot via controller sales, and they traditionally want them to be as cheap as possible for manufacture. DS4 is estimated to cost $18. DS5 cameras will cost few bucks, and when you take in account hundreds of millions of sales of gamepads, that's millions of "lost" money that Sony has to invest into manufacturing.

The DS5 rumor is scary.

DS4 is annoying because of the stupid light and it's crappy battery life.

I only need one thing in a pad: a microphone so I can speak without using headsets.
The it has to be cheap, durable and have a long battery life.

 

[DieH@rd]

Rumour is that PS5 will have built in VR box, surely that will cost more than a camera?

But what is inside breakout box? A HDMI splitter, and a 3D audio processor [60>120hz upscale with applied rotation data is done on the GPU, not the spliter].

Those things can easily and cheaply be moved to the base PS5 design. 3D audio will be useful for all games on PS5 [and especially for proper object-based Atmos/DTSX support], while secondary HDMI will be used only by PSVR users. Sure, if there are not many of those users, then that part of the cost could be called "wasteful".

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

But what is inside breakout box? A HDMI splitter, and a 3D audio processor [60>120hz upscale with applied rotation data is done on the GPU, not the spliter].

Those things can easily and cheaply be moved to the base PS5 design. 3D audio will be useful for all games on PS5 [and especially for proper object-based Atmos/DTSX support], while secondary HDMI will be used only by PSVR users. Sure, if there are not many of those users, then that part of the cost could be called "wasteful".

The 60->120fps reprojection is done on the breakout box, not the GPU. I'm really curious to know how well it would work with 30fps content - could it make them feel like 60fps?

Overall though, I agree. The contents of that breakout box all make sense for integration.

It should allow them to release a dirt cheap PSVR2. How much can it cost to stick a 1440p screen and some accelerometers in a bit of padded plastic?

USB type C seems a pretty good fit. Able to power a headset and send it a 4K120 feed. It'd make the port relevant for people other than VR users too, so they could get away with two ports on the front again.

 

[cheapchips]

USB type C seems a pretty good fit. Able to power a headset and send it a 4K120 feed. It'd make the port relevant for people other than VR users too, so they could get away with two ports on the front again.

There's already an open consortium for using a single usb-c for VR. Everyone except Sony is a member.

https://sites.google.com/view/virtuallink-consortium/home

Edit: although since AMD are, you could argue they're a member by proxy

 

[DieH@rd]

The 60->120fps reprojection is done on the breakout box, not the GPU.

Sony dev clearly said that it is done on the GPU [with accompanying powerpoint slide showcasing the rendering steps and GPU times taken by the PSVR actions], and that each of 120hz frames gets rotated in accordance with the latest positional data.

 

[BRiT]

USB type C seems a pretty good fit. Able to power a headset and send it a 4K120 feed. It'd make the port relevant for people other than VR users too, so they could get away with two ports on the front again.

B3D Forum Discussion on VirtualLink -- https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/virtuallink-to-replace-vr-cablemess-with-single-usb-type-c.60844/

 

[ultragpu]

So in the likely assumption of a 2020 PS5 which was also been described as a "Beast" and costs $499 by some Reddit leaker, should we be more optimistic about its specs than what has been more conservatively proposed by some?
I say best case scenario would be a 14.2 TF machine (plus exclusive Navi feature) with Ryzen 2 CPU, 24gig GDDR6, 500gb SSD sand full PS4 BC sold at $100-$120 loss. Launching late 2020.
MS would probably launch few months later with roughly the same specs maybe 15tf just for bragging rights (but more generic than PS5's gpu), also the same price.
I'm definitely getting the vibe that Sony is going all out on PS5, far more ambitious than PS4 hardware wise, if PS4 is Avengers Age of Ultron then PS5 is Avengers Infinity War.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Sony dev clearly said that it is done on the GPU [with accompanying powerpoint slide showcasing the rendering steps and GPU times taken by the PSVR actions], and that each of 120hz frames gets rotated in accordance with the latest positional data.

I'm not sure if we're entirely singing from the same hymn sheet.

I don't doubt your claim that the PS4 is used for positional tracking, but im sure I recall reading a statement that the breakout box is used for 3D audio, unwarping the image for the TV output, but also for frame interpolation.

I might be misremembering though. I'll try to find a source.

Unless it's almost any effort whatsoever

 

[lefantome]

The rumors of the guy on reddit looks like bullcrap to me, maybe he had insider info on Sony skipping E3 (much easier to get) and it's using that to troll people.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They wouldn't add an expensive camera, they would add an inexpensive one.

I don't believe the rumor but I also don't think it's really different from the DS4.

How many controllers are sold? 100 million+. A cheap-ass $1 camera would mean a loss of $100 million dollars. If that camera isn't being used for anything and doesn't add value to the system, why include it? Leave the camera out and make an additional $100 million.

We've had console hardware refreshes remove cents-worth components like USB ports. I'd expect the same penny-pinching in the controllers.

 

[KeanuReeves]

I'm not sure if we're entirely singing from the same hymn sheet.

I don't doubt your claim that the PS4 is used for positional tracking, but im sure I recall reading a statement that the breakout box is used for 3D audio, unwarping the image for the TV output, but also for frame interpolation.

I might be misremembering though. I'll try to find a source.

Unless it's almost any effort whatsoever

It was a big thing upon the launch of the PSVR that people thought that Sony would ship a separate GPU inside the breakout box, but that wasn't the case at all.
The breakout box only did 3D audio and it unwarped the VR HDMI signal into normal HDMI so that it could copy what the headset user could see onto the TV/social screen.
The reprojection was 100% done on the PS4. Almost everyone gets this wrong.

 

[DieH@rd]

I might be misremembering though. I'll try to find a source.

Here you go straight from Sony, PU does not do 60>120 conversion. It brings back fisheye lens screen back into cropped 16:9 for flat screens.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I only need one thing in a pad: a microphone so I can speak without using headsets. The it has to be cheap, durable and have a long battery life.

Pick two.

 

[iroboto]

So in the likely assumption of a 2020 PS5 which was also been described as a "Beast" and costs $499 by some Reddit leaker, should we be more optimistic about its specs than what has been more conservatively proposed by some?
I say best case scenario would be a 14.2 TF machine (plus exclusive Navi feature) with Ryzen 2 CPU, 24gig GDDR6, 500gb SSD sand full PS4 BC sold at $100-$120 loss. Launching late 2020.
MS would probably launch few months later with roughly the same specs maybe 15tf just for bragging rights (but more generic than PS5's gpu), also the same price.
I'm definitely getting the vibe that Sony is going all out on PS5, far more ambitious than PS4 hardware wise, if PS4 is Avengers Age of Ultron then PS5 is Avengers Infinity War.

~360-380mm^2 is going to be around the target for die size. Unless you’re looking at chiplets.

14TF will likely be either too fast or too large for 360mm^2

 

[DieH@rd]

I wonder, if PS5 will have a dedicated WiFi chip for rock solid home Remote Play, what would it take to enable this tech to be also used for wireless sending of video feed to PSVR2?

They could kill 2 birds with one stone.

I only need one thing in a pad: a microphone so I can speak without using headsets.
The it has to be cheap, durable and have a long battery life.

Purchase a second hand PS4 camera. It has surprisingly good directional mics, I found it good for party chat.

 

[lefantome]

I wonder, if PS5 will have a dedicated WiFi chip for rock solid home Remote Play, what would it take to enable this tech to be also used for wireless sending of video feed to PSVR2?

They could kill 2 birds with one stone.


Purchase a second hand PS4 camera. It has surprisingly good directional mics, I found it good for party chat.

Pick two.

Microphones are super cheap , the pad itself is already handling audio for the headsets.

I don't need it, I think it would be cool to use and it can also be useful for voice control.

Most smart tvs have it in their remotes.

 

[ultragpu]

~360-380mm^2 is going to be around the target for die size. Unless you’re looking at chiplets.

14TF will likely be either too fast or too large for 360mm^2

What are the chances of them using chiplets tho?

 

[DieH@rd]

Few months ago, one of the first "legit" PS5 hardware reports [from non-blog non-reddit non-4chan non-anonymous source] actually mentioned that GPU will be discrete.