next-gen will be the first time Sony has the most power

[BOOMEXPLODE]

It's amazing to think that the last two generations Sony led the console market without the most powerful console. XBox was clearly superior to PS2, and N64 was superior to PS in alot of ways (although neither was clearly superior). With Revolution lacking "turbo power" and X360 being clearly less powerful, this will be the first generation where Sony clearly leads the competition technologically. It also appears that Sony will once again have the only platform to ever maintain dominance across generations!

 

[hugo]

They came a long way from designing a developer friendly console today compared to the PS2 last gen.I would say it's a success for them.The PS3 today has a cleaner setup.They did made an effort to improve.

 

[Lazy8s]

Some ports from the arcade will still have to be downgraded.

On the subject, how does this relate to Namco's plan for an nVidia based next generation arcade platform, which was described as an nForce2-based motherboard? PS3 looks to be competitive and would probably make a better choice as an arcade base economically for ports.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040927/nvidia.htm

 

[Fox5]

Some ports from the arcade will still have to be downgraded.

On the subject, how does this relate to Namco's plan for an nVidia based next generation arcade platform, which was described as an nForce2-based motherboard? PS3 looks to be competitive and would probably make a better choice as an arcade base economically for ports.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040927/nvidia.htm

1. How is nforce2 possible, when the athlon xp platform is dead? I'd also say they'd be using the integrated Geforce 4MX graphics if they're going for nforce2.

2. Looks like they just want to have PC games in the arcades. Nothing new, some other company is making a woefully underpowered Celeron based system that will run halflife 2 in the arcades, among other games.

 

[Farid]

Some ports from the arcade will still have to be downgraded.

You're talking about those Pachislots games powered by SuperH core + MBX?
Because the "Naomi 3", and its PVR5, is still AWOL.

 

[Lazy8s]

PowerVR's part for the high-end arcade system was pushed back about a half year to this autumn.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I dunno. I saw no mention of eDRAM for PS3. just the opposite of last gen.


the Xbox360 has that 256 MB edram bandwidth for rendering, what does PS3 have as far as some sort of equivalent.

the bandwidth of Rambus RDRAM is not much more than the GDDR3 bandwidth in Xbox360

but again, Xbox360 has that massive 256 GB sec bandwidth.

 

[colinisation]

Athlon is not dead, it lives on as geode or soming or another.
Besides its not very high volume so Im sure they can scrape chips from somewhere.

 

[Fox5]

Athlon is not dead, it lives on as geode or soming or another.
Besides its not very high volume so Im sure they can scrape chips from somewhere.

I have seen no geode chips for sale(though I would love to see some 90nm athlon xp chips), but they are on AMD's roadmap I believe. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see these completely replaced by the Cyrix Geodes on the low-end, and Athlon 64 based Geodes on the higher end.

BTW, how much more does it cost to produce an athlon 64 than an athlon xp? I can't imagine it's much, otherwise they could just flood the market with low priced xp chips and make a decent profit. A 1MB L2 cache athlon xp would be a healthy competitor for the Celeron M, and probably significantly cheaper to produce as well.

 

[jvd]

they could use socket a semprons which are clock for clock faster than the athlon xps

 

[Fox5]

they could use socket a semprons which are clock for clock faster than the athlon xps

They're only faster than the tbred athlon xps, they're slower than the bartons. The semprons generally have the 166mhz memory bus, but don't have the 512KB cache.

 

[jvd]

true .... but they are cheaper to make

 

[The GameMaster]

Too early to say the PS3 is the more powerful system... but it IS an impressive machine though. Glancing at the specifications I would say both machines are roughly equal with both having certain advantages and disadvantages. I need more details and finalized specifications before I can accurately judge which is more powerful on paper. Remember this though, if both machines are theortically roughly equal in power then if comes down to which machine is more efficient... in which case Microsoft wins... and more than that if all things was equal it comes down to the software and tools, in which case Microsoft will win that war easily.

What is the point of having power if you are not able to use that power?

The GameMaster...

 

[twisted-txb]

Too early to say the PS3 is the more powerful system... but it IS an impressive machine though. Glancing at the specifications I would say both machines are roughly equal with both having certain advantages and disadvantages. I need more details and finalized specifications before I can accurately judge which is more powerful on paper. Remember this though, if both machines are theortically roughly equal in power then if comes down to which machine is more efficient... in which case Microsoft wins... and more than that if all things was equal it comes down to the software and tools, in which case Microsoft will win that war easily.

What is the point of having power if you are not able to use that power?

The GameMaster...

well if you look at the PS2 and how long it remained competitive against consoles half its age, i'd say if they focus on the same scale of longevity, the PS3 will end up to be a tough competitor

 

[jvd]

well if you look at the PS2 and how long it remained competitive against consoles half its age, i'd say if they focus on the same scale of longevity, the PS3 will end up to be a tough competitor

ps2 stayed competive because of the amount of money that was poured into it . it was the market leader which means that the big devs were dumping alot of money on developement that neithe the xbox or game cube had .

 

[twisted-txb]

well if you look at the PS2 and how long it remained competitive against consoles half its age, i'd say if they focus on the same scale of longevity, the PS3 will end up to be a tough competitor

ps2 stayed competive because of the amount of money that was poured into it . it was the market leader which means that the big devs were dumping alot of money on developement that neithe the xbox or game cube had .

true, but 5 years ago i would have never imagined the PS2 capable of doing graphics in the leagues of Chaos Theory & God of War.

like mentionned in some thread a few days ago i think the next gen war will end up being a price war. somehow i cant imagine Sony launching its console for the usual $299 price tag, while MS with a 6 months or more headstart might go down the crazy route and drop the price to $250.

moms & dads will have the choice between a $350 console with a handful of first-gen graphics titles or a $250 console with 2nd-wave graphics games.

my 2c

 

[jvd]

it should be . Looking at the specs and what posters here that know better are saying the systems will be pretty close to each other and it looks like ms will be able to drop the system price faster .

So it may be xbox 360 400$ for xmass 2005 . Xbox 360 300$ for xmass 2006

vs ps3 400$ for xmass 2006. Which can help ms .

 

[Geeforcer]

If I were MS, I would drop the price around PS3 release.

 

[Acert93]

If I were MS, I would drop the price around PS3 release.

And that looks like the plan. It looks like everyone will start off at 90nm. If the chip sizes are correct, Sony has over 100M transisters on the table (234M + 300M vs. 165M + 150M + ~90M?). The rest of the pricesheet is interesting:

PS3
-256MB GDDR3
-256MB XDR
-BluRay drive
-A lot of ports

X360
-512MB GDDR3
-12x DVD
-20GB HDD
-Not quite as many ports

In the long run the BR drive should be more affordable than a HDD, but at first I would guess it would be expensive.

My guess is that it will go something like this:

Fall 2005
- Xbox 360 release
- 40 launch titles

Fall 2006:
- PS3 release
- Xbox 360 media edition (larger HDD for recording HD TV, maybe even a HD movie player)
- Halo 3 release; MS wont cut price and will instead try to leverage their game library advantage

2007
- Aggressive price move from MS

Although depending on how Live goes with the marketplace and microtransactions we may very well see MS try to subsidize their console through other revenue streams. If they sell music online or something like that they could be in a position to cut price earlier.

All conjecture of course, but I have a strong feeling the Xbox 360 is designed as much to drop price and take away from Sony's bottomline by either making them match price moves or get stuck with a big chunk of cash per sale.

I still am not sure that the BR drive is the best move. If you can get a PS3 with BR for $300 why buy a $250 BR stand alone from Sony?? Including the BR is good for their format and good for consumers, but I have to wonder what it will do to Sony's consumer electronics sales, not to mention you do NOT want casual consiumers who wont buy many games getting a PS3 with a BR because Sony will be taking a hit on each sale. You want gamers first and foremost to buy the console because their game sales is what makes Sony money.

 

[Geeforcer]

Fall 2006 for PS3 release? I was thinking Spring.