Next gen lighting technologies - voxelised, traced, and everything else *spawn*

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by Scott_Arm, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. OCASM

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    I wouldn't be surprised seeing something like that. Already developers mix static cubrmaps with dynamic SSR.

    Or DICE should rethink their rendering pipeline, which they are already doing as exemplified by their Halcyon engine.
     
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  2. OCASM

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    On the topic of laggy reflections, we've already seen them in action in the NVIDIA demo called SOL:



    It's not that bad.

    We've also seen the spatial-only denoiser in this other demo:



    Pretty good.

    Here's a presentation that goes into some detail on the different denoisers NVIDIA uses right now. The reflections part starts at minute 18 (including a listing of problems with current rasterization techniques):

    http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/si...u-low-sample-count-ray-tracing-denoisers.html

    My favorite is actually the path tracing part :twisted:
     
  3. Voxilla

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    We have been presented a lot of videos produced by Nvidia, to show off how good and spectacular the new raytracing hardware works.
    In the past there have been lot's of breakthroughs where GPUs enabled new levels of graphics realism.
    At each point together with the release of the such a breakthrough GPU generation, these spectacular demos were made available for the graphics enthusiast to run and enjoy them on their own brand new GPU and be amazed by the new levels of real-time rendering quality.
    A list of all those generations and accompanying demos (which can all still be downloaded) Nvidia provides:
    https://www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos

    So why are all those new impressive raytracing demos not available now to download and run on available RTX Geforce cards ?
     
  4. troyan

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    Because nVidia has learned that the backslash isnt worth the release.
    That is the result when the consumer has stopped to care about better graphics and are more interested in more pixel.
     
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  5. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
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    Maybe NV should have invested first in a redesigned memory subsystem, before throwing billions of transistors for dedicated DNN/RT logic in overpriced consumer SKUs?
    Yet another iteration of the old GDDR memory is not cutting it, as it seems, and HBM costs is not going down fast enough.
     
  6. Shifty Geezer

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    Backlash of what? What'll the backlash be for RTX owners getting to run these demos on their new, expensive GPUs?

    As for not caring about quality, certainly the results here so far are that plenty of PC gamers prefer quality visuals. Pixel counting isn't a priority.
     
  7. Voxilla

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    If consumers would not care there would not be a point to show those videos, the demo videos are still posted here by insiders like @OCASM
    The demo's are here so why not release them to the public?
    In the past I would run to the shop to buy latest high end cards just to marvel at those demos:
    https://www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos
    (Also for cards of AMD BTW)
    Now instead of at least being impressed by actual downloadable tech demos, people are disappointed by first games implementing raytracing technology.
     
    #427 Voxilla, Nov 18, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  8. troyan

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    Havent you heard about Battlefield 5? And now think about demos which can only run on RTX2080TI in 1080p/30fps at best. I can see the clickbait youtube videos and how they claiming that
    Turing is to slow for Raytracing in games.

    And those polls dont say anything. You have now the option to play Battlefield 5 in 1080p/60fps with DXR "Low" or 2160p/60FPS without on a RTX2070. Lets see how many people would chose
    better looking reflections over 4k...
     
  9. OCASM

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    Who knows? Why don't you ask them?

    I'm not disappointed, I'm actually impressed. Those disappointed are people who just want console-level graphics running at a higher framerate/resolution.
     
  10. Voxilla

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    Any suggestion who to address ?
    I looked for a suitable raytracing entry on
    https://forums.geforce.com/
    But all I see is complaints about broken RTX cards and people complaining about poor BFV raytracing performance
     
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  11. OCASM

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    Maybe on Twitter? Morgan McGuire seems like a good option, he's pretty active there. His handle is CasualEffects .
     
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  12. chris1515

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  13. milk

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  14. Voxilla

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    #434 Voxilla, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
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  15. JoeJ

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    I disagree with this being creative or cool. This is total bullshit, and my main reason of criticizing RTX.

    Remember when people started to use pixel shaders for other purposes? How horrible, inefficient workarounds they had to use just to utilize GPU power?

    It already happens again... this is why some NV folks say 'raytracing is the new compute' - pah! We are back to the stone age of GPUs, and of course NV likes to see that, because they took the lead in sending us back in time, and they are the only ones who profit from that.


    All this guy is doing is seeking for workarounds to utilize traversal hardware. Don't you think he could do better algorithms if he had direct access to this feature, beyond the RT restrictions and black boxes?


    Q: Why is NV boycotting its own invention, namely GPGPU? They have new options to generate work on GPUs for raytracing and procedural mesh generation. Why do they not expose this to general purpose compute? Why locking up a fundamental building block like tree traversal?
    A: Because they do not want us to be software developers or inventors. They want us to become their USERS, limited and tied to their products.
     
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  16. BRiT

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    It'll then be up to Intel and AMD to come up with powerful enough general purpose hardware that's better.
     
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  17. Voxilla

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    It is far from proven that these RT tricks would be any faster/better than existing GPGPU algorithms of course :)
     
    #437 Voxilla, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  18. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
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    Is real-time RT fundamentally compatible (or even plasuble) with the mostly latency-tolerant graphics architectures, or it would require too much redesigning of the GPU concept to be cost efficient and still being generally programmable?
     
  19. JoeJ

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    Both of them already have powerful general purpose hardware, so what's your point?
     
  20. JoeJ

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    I'm no hardware designer, but i have no doubts exposing traversal hardware and work generation to compute would be very very easy. (But it would tell a bit about NVs secret sauce here, likely, so i totally understand their course - it's just not good fur us.)
    Going a step further, e.g. being able to implement custom trees or bounding box lookups instead ray intersections / custom geometry / merging LOD with traversal and geometry like voxels / this might be another story now with RT cores already made for centuries old 'classical raytracing'.
     
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