So no Sony E3 conference thread sticky
Can't wait to see FF15
I'll create one when I'm on the PC so I can dig up more info and links...
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I'll create one when I'm on the PC so I can dig up more info and links...
No Sony E3 conference thread yet?
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_1bzaj2fw
Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_1bzaj2fw
They said that of PS3. They said there was a collaboration with NCSoft to bring MMOs over. 'They' are full of %*@# and I don't believe anything 'they' say.
They said that of PS3. They said there was a collaboration with NCSoft to bring MMOs over. 'They' are full of %*@# and I don't believe anything 'they' say.
Yeah, but we did get some of them still (like DC Universe). Problem by that time was that while the PSN service basically was open enough to support MMOs, the no doubt highly unoptimised code most MMOs have been written in was hard to fit onto the PS3 (and the countless updates MMOs require could no doubt have been handled more efficiently by PSN as well). Those bits have now basically been resolved - the PS4 has become one of the most PC-port friendly system probably released so far, and when released it should be able to handle anything developed for PC with extremely little effort.
So I actually believe them this time.
Don't hurry ... traditionally we (I?) would create them a day or so before the actual conference hits, so that it didn't become a discussion forum with empty banter, and actually mostly just discussed the conference itself.
Of course, this time it's a console generation shift, so likely to be quite a bit more epic than usual.
If we need conference focussed banter beforehand, maybe an E3 anticipation thread?
@PS4eye discussion: They laid huge emphasis on the PS4's social features in their reveal event. If they don't bundle their take on a next-gen video and audio input-device with every PS4, that will be a massive departure from their vision of a more "social" and "connected" console.
@E3 conference: They just need to show some Last Guardian gameplay running on PS4 and I'll gladly place my preorder
@E3 conference: They just need to show some Last Guardian gameplay running on PS4 and I'll gladly place my preorder
They said that of PS3. They said there was a collaboration with NCSoft to bring MMOs over. 'They' are full of %*@# and I don't believe anything 'they' say.
Well it seems that Destiny will be shown at the Sony conference so this time they might be doing things right.
Surely I would love to see PlanetSide 2 on PS4.
How many camera based features did they show? I recall the focus being on sharing gameplay and the like, rather than video chatting. Even the PS4 webpage doesn't say anything about the camera, but does say of DS4:
The chat headset seems a little redundant if the console has a voice-isolating mic array.
Sony really haven't talked about the camera. They've released pics and specs, but not illustrated it whatsoever. There's no video describing it; there have been no demos; there has been no public showing of it in action AFAIK. It may be that they have still be deciding whether to pack it in or not. The system might be built around it, and SDKs may include it for developers to target, but it may then be sold as an optional extra. It'll be E3 when we find out what Sony's intentions for the camera are, but I'm starting to have my doubts Sony are willing to back it properly again, not least because Sony have a solid history of being stupid.
I could even imagine that European box includes it by default, but the US box doesn't. If I look at GAF, there's a huge amount of people who would rather not have it included, and have a cheaper box instead.
If I would make a list of reasons why Sony wouldn't include it:
- SCEA traditionally has a very small mindshare for PS Eye, and consumers there probably care much less
- GDDR5 or other reasons making Sony look extra hard for ways to get the price of the PS4 below a certain threshold, causing them to consider not including the PS Eye.
- it would give their PS4 a feature that the XBO has better. Not including it, would make the PS4 compete better on price while at the same time avoid direct comparisons. This is then further helped by multiplatform titles less likely to support such features well, which would further decrease the advantage of the XBO.
- if they include it, they would have to include the Move controller. If they include the Move controller, then that would further increase the price, and it makes the whole console a bit confusing and difficult to explain to end-users. What to use when? How to keep them all charged? How not to clutter the living room? Etc.
The demo for live gameplay sharing using twitch.tv definitely did use the PS Eye to show the player in a small window overlayed on the (720p placed in a 1080p screen) window showing the actual gameplay, with other chats and comments appearing around. This user still had a headset on - even when it is possible to use the PS Eye for that, that still doesn't mean everyone will prefer to do so.
Following the player's position in multi-player was also suggested, and this feature was in fact shown in the Microsoft conference. And the MM demonstration showed that they were dedicated to creating a Move title, using the new PS Eye.
I agree that particularly SCEA and SCEJ can be pretty stupid in these things, but as much as I'd hate them for it, like you I could see it happen, just to create a simple, strong, and cheap box that can compete on price and performance, and has no directly visible weaknesses.
Personally though, I'd rather have PS Eye included by default, especially because that should be able to interact quite well with the DS4 controller's led. I definitely see advantages for instance for being able to track moving the DS4 forward and backward for additional input, multiplayer split-screen positioning, etc. Those things, at least, should be default.
If I would make a list of reasons why Sony wouldn't include it:
- SCEA traditionally has a very small mindshare for PS Eye, and consumers there probably care much less
- GDDR5 or other reasons making Sony look extra hard for ways to get the price of the PS4 below a certain threshold, causing them to consider not including the PS Eye.
- it would give their PS4 a feature that the XBO has better. Not including it, would make the PS4 compete better on price while at the same time avoid direct comparisons. This is then further helped by multiplatform titles less likely to support such features well, which would further decrease the advantage of the XBO.
- if they include it, they would have to include the Move controller. If they include the Move controller, then that would further increase the price, and it makes the whole console a bit confusing and difficult to explain to end-users. What to use when? How to keep them all charged? How not to clutter the living room? Etc.
The demo for live gameplay sharing using twitch.tv definitely did use the PS Eye to show the player in a small window overlayed on the (720p placed in a 1080p screen) window showing the actual gameplay, with other chats and comments appearing around. This user still had a headset on - even when it is possible to use the PS Eye for that, that still doesn't mean everyone will prefer to do so.
Following the player's position in multi-player was also suggested, and this feature was in fact shown in the Microsoft conference. And the MM demonstration showed that they were dedicated to creating a Move title, using the new PS Eye.
I agree that particularly SCEA and SCEJ can be pretty stupid in these things, but as much as I'd hate them for it, like you I could see it happen, just to create a simple, strong, and cheap box that can compete on price and performance, and has no directly visible weaknesses.
Personally though, I'd rather have PS Eye included by default, especially because that should be able to interact quite well with the DS4 controller's led. I definitely see advantages for instance for being able to track moving the DS4 forward and backward for additional input, multiplayer split-screen positioning, etc. Those things, at least, should be default.
Video chat could be accomplished by an existing webcam and by an accessory - that's exactly how it was handled on PS3. Use either EyeToy or PSEye. This would mean no standard video chat as you couldn't guarantee all parties had cameras.
I really don't like the idea of the camera as an accessory, but given the focus on core gaming, I'm wary that's where Sony are going, making it a pretty pointless product. I barely use my PSEye and consider it a waste of money. Sony never delivered on their concept video for an HD EyeToy, and it looks like they're going to repeat themselves.
But maybe, just maybe, they're saving PS4Eye for E4 as a special announcement because they have something special for it and want to make a big noise getting all the attention? That's also a possibility.
I really don't like the idea of the camera as an accessory, but given the focus on core gaming, I'm wary that's where Sony are going, making it a pretty pointless product. I barely use my PSEye and consider it a waste of money. Sony never delivered on their concept video for an HD EyeToy, and it looks like they're going to repeat themselves.
But maybe, just maybe, they're saving PS4Eye for E4 as a special announcement because they have something special for it and want to make a big noise getting all the attention? That's also a possibility.
Yes, in your little cocoon of I have a PS Eye but not a Move controller I imagine you would feel this way. . I'll remind you yet again that there are some 100 titles that support Move, and a decent number of them also use use the camera in a neat way (lots of cool AR stuff for instance). Those games though do highlight that the video quality is all but HD.
For the PS Eye, they seem to have solved part of that problem by allowing the new PS Eye to use one camera for tracking Move, and the other for getting a nice looking picture. The rare game that supported both Move and video chat (like the nice looking Pool/Snooker game) had to disable videochat when using Move. Also, it pretty much finally has sort of a HD quality (though still not a great IQ, I fear).
And yes, the videochat bit on PS3 supported even some third party cameras.
Being able to say 'we won't force a camera on you' will be an effective PR opportunity in the US, at least, though. And I do again still worry about the whole having so many different peripherals in the box. Still I would prefer if the PS Eye would be included, so that say MM's next game only has to include a single Move controller for instance.
I also see that the integration of a camera and front/back facing cameras in Mobile's as a growth of consumer acceptance of such features as an input paradigm for all sorts of things as another reason why this gen it would be more useful to support out of the box.
It also features quite prominently in the tech-specs PDF on the official site by the way.
. I'll remind you yet again that there are some 100 titles that support Move, and a decent number of them also use use the camera in a neat way (lots of cool AR stuff for instance). Those games though do highlight that the video quality is all but HD. For the PS Eye, they seem to have solved part of that problem by allowing the new PS Eye to use one camera for tracking Move, and the other for getting a nice looking picture. The rare game that supported both Move and video chat (like the nice looking Pool/Snooker game) had to disable videochat when using Move. Also, it pretty much finally has sort of a HD quality (though still not a great IQ, I fear).
And yes, the videochat bit on PS3 supported even some third party cameras.
Being able to say 'we won't force a camera on you' will be an effective PR opportunity in the US, at least, though. And I do again still worry about the whole having so many different peripherals in the box. Still I would prefer if the PS Eye would be included, so that say MM's next game only has to include a single Move controller for instance.
I also see that the integration of a camera and front/back facing cameras in Mobile's as a growth of consumer acceptance of such features as an input paradigm for all sorts of things as another reason why this gen it would be more useful to support out of the box.
It also features quite prominently in the tech-specs PDF on the official site by the way.
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
It seems they still have one WOW announcement. I can´t think of anything diserving the wow impact except for something VR related or FFVII remake...
Edit: "Can't even believe call the cool stuff @mikebithell just told me in private about the PS4. Wow. #leakybithell"
https://twitter.com/danthat/status/330051454725414912
To put things in perspective Mike Bithell ( creator of the indie game "Thomas was alone" ) was in the Sony offices presenting its new project to be greenlighted for PS4. And the strange thing is that he took his Oculus Rift with him...
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But it's a niche with a subset of game genres and a complete lack of advancing the tech. There's so much more that could be done with camera tech and decent tracking which hasn't been done because it was an opt-in feature. Wii was only as successful as it was because it came with waggle. Had Wii been a peripheral for GC, it'd have had no more success than EyeToy.Yes, in your little cocoon of I have a PS Eye but not a Move controller I imagine you would feel this way.
The reason I don't care for PSEye and Move is because no-one's made anything on it sufficiently compelling for me. If it was standard and every developer was including it intelligently in all games, I'd get use out of it. If it remains a peripheral, devs won't target it except for the existing niche and I again won't bother. For one thing there''d be decent competition for games advancing the art, instead of the niche being support by fringe B games that people play with Move because none of the AAA devs are targeting it. I expect Heavy Rain would have been a much different experience if designed from the ground up for Move. Without motion as standard in PS4, those devs won't be targeting it.
I am not convinced that the PS Eye is suitable for doing more with advancing the tech by itself. The Move controller did a lot more for it. A virtual 3D tool that moves in 3D space and stays perfectly over itself in the video feed is something that the PS Eye could never do by itself. And the Move controller provides actually useful input, as demonstrated by quite a vast range of games. I of course am not going to have any discussion with you, because however many of these games exist, I am not sure which one of those could convince you. What have you tried so far, if anything?
Sony did a fair bit of stuff with AR, camera only, on Vita and showed some interesting new tech demos recently as well for markerless AR, but it's still in its infancy. Kinect and the 3D EyeToy give more promise there. Certainly though the stuff they did show recently with AR has some potential, and now we'll have to wait until E3 to see if they do anything cool with it.
Sony did a fair bit of stuff with AR, camera only, on Vita and showed some interesting new tech demos recently as well for markerless AR, but it's still in its infancy. Kinect and the 3D EyeToy give more promise there. Certainly though the stuff they did show recently with AR has some potential, and now we'll have to wait until E3 to see if they do anything cool with it.
rockaman
Regular
Aren't you interested in the sculpting demonstration by Media Molecule at PS Meeting?
To me it seems like the most interesting application of tracking I've seen, to let people create virtual objects with their own hands (well, with an extension).
Yes, but that's a singular fringe case, and no proof it'll materialise as a product, or even a good product. Move is capable of sculplting, but who's using it? Who's done anything interesting with it beyond simple Tumble interactions (liked that game, would be great in 3D), dubious RTS interfaces (tried Move with RUSE and Under Siege, and it wasn't great, plus those games weren't great IMO), and pointing shooters with weird camera controls (MAG etc., couldn't get on with them with a little experience and wasn't motivated enough to buy a Move and dedicate hours training to get good with them)? Sports and Tumble were good. Launch titles. Fringe titles like the awesome EyeToy Play. And then the tech fizzles out (like Warhawk's cool motion flight not only failing to reach other games, but actually being dropped from its sequel!) and you're left with a dust-gathering box (everyone's Wii after that got finished playing Wii Sports).
TBH even if PS4Eye is included in the box, it might get zero support like sixaxis. But with Kinect on XB1, chances of using the camera for things like high-quality head tracking (not GT5's ridiculous implementation) are much improved. I really want Sony to actually get behind their tech for once, instead of the usual 'let's put it out there and see what happens' approach.
I think you're pretty much spot-on with your criticism. There are many Move games (and Move-control integrations) I actually liked - the problem is that Sony really lacks a AAA game centred around Move.
Tumble is a very good example of creative use of the tech - but it's hardly more than a glorified tech-demo. Sports Champions just felt crazily accurate (especially compared to the Wii's earlier takes on the genre) - but the fun wore off rather quickly. Move controls in Under Siege were good - it's a pity it took the devs a few months to release a patch that fixed the horrible save-point-system and actually made the game enjoyable during the later missions. Flight Control with Move was actually rather addictive - but that's basically a tablet-game you won't bother to play for more than a few rounds. Etc.
They should start getting behind their tech and finally throw a few million dollars at Disney to get the license for that epic Star Wars lightsaber/action/adventure game I've been waiting for ever since wielding a Move controller for the very first time.
Would be the PERFECT project for Sucker Punch (as much as I like Infamous - it's about time they do the same game with less colours, epic lightsaber battles and some interplanetary travel in between).
Well from my perspective - I'm not interested in Move at all. I actually think Kinect is the better tech - or at least more convinient because it doesn't require a complex extra controller.
One thing that would make me actually buy Move and where I see that is has a significant advantage over kinect, is the concept behind the "shooter-accessory". Get the gun and connect the move controllers and then have a light-gun. The problem is - I tried it on KZ3 at my friends place and the accuracy levels wasn't that good. Even worse - the calibration seemed to go off after a while of playing, which made it effectively a no-go for me. Maybe it was down to surroundings or light level (he uses a projector as I do), or maybe the tech just isn't good enough through the camera - or the game wasn't optimally set up around it.... but if it had worked, then it'd be a serious accessory I would actually get it and would hope for more support. Even better - games centered around this add-on, like in the old days of lightgun shooters in the arcades or the various titles on PSone (Die Hard game was awesome).
For all the other games... not that interested.
One thing that would make me actually buy Move and where I see that is has a significant advantage over kinect, is the concept behind the "shooter-accessory". Get the gun and connect the move controllers and then have a light-gun. The problem is - I tried it on KZ3 at my friends place and the accuracy levels wasn't that good. Even worse - the calibration seemed to go off after a while of playing, which made it effectively a no-go for me. Maybe it was down to surroundings or light level (he uses a projector as I do), or maybe the tech just isn't good enough through the camera - or the game wasn't optimally set up around it.... but if it had worked, then it'd be a serious accessory I would actually get it and would hope for more support. Even better - games centered around this add-on, like in the old days of lightgun shooters in the arcades or the various titles on PSone (Die Hard game was awesome).
For all the other games... not that interested.
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