New Wii footage

[Blade]

How many Nintendo systems have you owned?

Just curious because the Wii is supposed to attract new fans, not just make their existing fanbase happy.

Look up "relevant" in the dictionary, my friend. Just because I'm a Nintendo fan doesn't mean I should be stereotyped. Nintendo is a company, a philosophy... not a genre. I was never a big Pilotwings guy before, but watching the video made me want to play the game. I wanted to explore the environment.

The prospect of playing it with a new "paper plane" control scheme is just icing on the cake, really. I'm sure "new fans" will agree.

BTW, for the record, I think Red Steel will end up with a score in the range of 5.5-7.9 from IGN. It's not the slow aiming control that bothers me, it's the use of the sword that gives the title its name. Unless they develop it beyond the extremely linear swinging of the E3 demo, it's going to disappoint.

 

[StefanS]

And it's pretty easy to see that shortcomming in the Red Steel video. You've got one controller for movement, one for aiming, and apparently the "Free look" is like Metroid where you have to depress a button to look instead of aiming.

I am not sure, but you seem to have gotten the wrong impression here. You don't have to depress a button for freelook.
The controls in Red Steel and MP3 for that matter revolve around using the wand. Within a certain screen area you can move the crosshair and aim freely with the help of the wand. Outside (i.e. near the border of the screen) you're in "turning mode". Here you turn your field of vision where you want to.
The only difference I know of is that MP3 allows you to alter the sensitivity which according to a lot of impression made a huge difference in terms of ease of use.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why is that a problem, and why would that need to be simulated? Halo doesn't simulate picking up the mouse and putting it back at the center of the pad, but I've never heard anyone ever complain about it.

The stick is different to the Wiimote in use though. The stick provides relative positioning - you're inputting what changes you want to make and can just hold to the right to continuously turn right. The Wiimote is there to provide absolute positioning - inputting the point you want to look at. If you want to use a pointer to look outside the limits of the screen, you need some mechanism, and the one used in Red Steel isn't ideal. Using a button, perhaps Nunchuck trigger, to change the movement stick to look stick, would propbably be smooth. You couldn't move and look at the same time, but you'd have better control than the 'point out of screen to turn' method. Alternatively they could go with a fixed centre crosshair and use the Wiimote as a second analogue stick, using deviation from centre point to decide how much to start moving the camera, but that kinda defeats the point of a point-and-shoot FPS with a lightgun!

 

[nintenho]

Mario and Metroid Prime look amazing. Red Steel looks awkward but hopefully the AI gets better after the training level. You guys realize that you don't have to have a realistic level of challenge when aiming in shooting games, right?

I don't think a Wii game would work unless it was a real passion project and not some normal factory-made game.

 

[Kaotik]

Maybe it's just me, but I think in those videos we have "definate proof" of Hollywood's pixel shading capabilities. I'm positive that ATI's old (unofficial?) statement that "both of our forthcoming console chips will be at least DX9 level technology" holds true

 

[Powderkeg]

Look up "relevant" in the dictionary, my friend. Just because I'm a Nintendo fan doesn't mean I should be stereotyped.

Completely missed my point.

You admit to being a Nintendo fan, therefore it should be of no suprise that you would overlook the graphics when you are looking at a Nintendo game. The fact that you were "intrigued" as you watched the video probably has far more to do with the fact you are a fan than it is related to anything you actually saw.

 

[Powderkeg]

I am not sure, but you seem to have gotten the wrong impression here. You don't have to depress a button for freelook.
The controls in Red Steel and MP3 for that matter revolve around using the wand. Within a certain screen area you can move the crosshair and aim freely with the help of the wand. Outside (i.e. near the border of the screen) you're in "turning mode". Here you turn your field of vision where you want to.

After reading this and watching the video again I must say you are correct. That is how it appears to work.

It's still clumsy though, as it means you have to aim away from the center of the screen and potential targets to look up and down, left and right, which means you can't make viewing adjustments in the middle of a firefight easily.

 

[Beafy]

After reading this and watching the video again I must say you are correct. That is how it appears to work.

It's still clumsy though, as it means you have to aim away from the center of the screen and potential targets to look up and down, left and right, which means you can't make viewing adjustments in the middle of a firefight easily.

I'm not sure I understand the problem... Since you shoot at where the crosshair is, and not necessarily where the center of the screen is, why is it bad to have to move away from the center? In what way is dual analog better in this regard?

 

[Natoma]

I can simply watch the screen. And I've heard how you are supposed to control this game. To turn around you have to point the gun to the side of the screen and .5 seconds later the player will turn.

I just hate it. And I don't think it will be better than a PS3/Xbox 360 dual analog controller for FPS games.

I just find the responses interesting considering you haven't tried it hands on. You can't possibly make an opinion or judgement without having tried it.

Hate is a very strong word for something that you haven't touched.

When the DS was proposed, I thought it was pretty goofy. Whoever heard of controlling a game system with a stylus, not to mention two screens? I saw no need to own one considering I had a GBA and thought it would be niche. And yet, I own one now and was "addicted" almost immediately.

My impressions and opinions before owning the DS were a complete 180 to when I actually got my hands on one a couple of weeks ago.

I just think you're making absurd conclusions before having tried the system. You're setting yourself up to "hate" something that isn't even out. That's immature imo.

 

[Natoma]

Precisely. Lightguns never have been very good controllers for shooters that require the player to manually control both movement and free look.

And yet, the control system for the Wii isn't just a lightgun. So what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

 

[cthellis42]

I just find the responses interesting considering you haven't tried it hands on. You can't possibly make an opinion or judgement without having tried it.

We see how it's being controlled in the movie currently, it's not the way we play ANY other kind of FPS, it slows your responses at that turning speed... How, again, are we unable to comment on what we can plainly see?

The telling point, as I mentioned earlier, is if that is the only way to control the frame of view. The Wii certainly has plenty of options and the ability to make it much better.


(I've just noticed I have ceased to call it the "Revolution" and accepted the new branding. 'tis a sad day... )

And yet, the control system for the Wii isn't just a lightgun. So what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

That is precisely the point. It isn't just a light-gun, and yet we can see that the control method being used in that Red Steel demo is plainly worse. And trust me, I've played plenty of Dead Aim to know just how much more I'd hate THAT control scheme that Dead Aim's. While I'm sure Red Steel has a lot more variety of action, that control method is plainly worse.

Plainly.



You bring up an interesting point regarding the DS, though:

My impressions and opinions before owning the DS were a complete 180 to when I actually got my hands on one a couple of weeks ago.

It's also my experience that the DS's touchpad-control methods in general (when used to control camera movement and character-positional), are decidedly lackluster. I continually find myself going back to the D-pad because developers' "using the touch-screen as an analog control" efforts so far have been painful. For aiming? Spot on. Otherwise... -_-

That doesn't make me think the Wii's is going to be impressive right out of the gate either, and if that Red Steel control method is all they're going to go with... my indications have more basis in reality. (After all, Red Steel is one of the titles Nintendo has been really showing off.)

 

[Natoma]

Here's the thing. I watched that Red Steel video too, and nowhere is the movement control scheme mentioned. All you see is the video of the game itself in motion, with a couple of stills to show you how to open the door and shoot. That is unlike the Excite Truck video where they actually show you beforehand how the movements are made.

So you really have no idea how Red Steel is being controlled. And that is my point.

 

[StefanS]

So you really have no idea how Red Steel is being controlled. And that is my point.

Nope, from the impressions of IGN Wii and Planetgamecube, there's a fixed rectangular area for free aiming. Outside the player starts turning. The Analogue stick is for forward/ backward and strafing.
That is true for both MP3 and Red Steel. Some impressions were negative, some really positive. Especially adjusting the sensitvity which so far is only possible in the Mp3 E3 build seemed to greatly improve the controls and the gameplay, at least according to the impressions.
As for the mentioned "free look" controls like in FPS on the PC with mouse / keyboard setup, IGN speculated that the Wiimote would be too sensitive and thus might induce motion sickness and nausea apart from the recentering problem.

 

[Natoma]

Link me?

 

[StefanS]

Your wish is my command.

Metroid Prime 3:


First impression
http://www.planetgamecube.com/impressionsArt.cfm?artid=11483

But what is shocking about Corruption is the control, which is of course radically different with the Wii controller. You move with the nunchuk control stick and aim with the remote as a pointer. Within the central area of the screen, you can aim the blaster without turning. To rotate the view or look up or down, you point towards the edge of the screen. It’s pretty easy to keep track of, thanks to the targeting symbol. But actually moving with the joystick and aiming/turning with the remote, at the same time, takes a lot of coordination. I did feel more comfortable with it after several minutes, eventually getting into some shootouts with the Space Pirates in which I no longer had to think about the controller as much.

second impression

http://www.planetgamecube.com/impressionsArt.cfm?artid=11556

The trick to good control in the E3 demo of Corruption is to enable “Expert" sensitivity in the pause menu. This setting allows you to perform all the aiming and turning with small, precise wrist movements, instead of larger movements of your entire arm which are required at the default sensitivity. Because you aren’t moving the remote nearly as much, it won’t drift outside of the sensor bar’s range, so you avoid the weird view-freeze bug and subsequent auto-calibration fix mentioned in my first set of impressions. It’s also just easier and more comfortable to play the game with smaller movements, and you can turn faster to keep up with quick flying enemies.

Armed with this much improved control setting, I had greater confidence in my shooting abilities when playing the second half of the demo.

Red Steel coming up soon ;-)

 

[StefanS]

Red Steel IGN hands-on

http://wii.ign.com/articles/705/705854p2.html

Wielding the Steel
... Using the analog stick in our left hand to move forward and backward, the right-handed "Revmote," as it's been called, controlled a super sensitive reticle on screen. On the bottom of the remote the trigger was used for…well, the gun trigger. Originally the plan was to mock PC first-person shooters, but the sensitivity was so great that having the camera tied to the center was dizzying. This led them back to a control scheme that, much like we saw in September 2005 with the Metroid Prime 2 "Revolution demo," allowed you to turn as the reticle touched the edge of the screen. It was surprisingly intuitive. To center the reticle you just point at the center of the screen. Very simple. Your first reaction, not surprisingly, is to wield the controller like a real gun, dramatically pointing it about as if you were in a poorly directed action movie. You can even tilt your wrist to turn the gun sideways, gangster style, although that's mostly in there just for flare and to allow you to hold the controller at varying angles comfortably and have it show up on screen similarly. You won't be able to flip it all the way over or anything, though.

Once you come to grips with how all this works, you start to realize that using subtle movements with your wrist, or playing from the hip works much better. Another discovery we had was this: the farther away from the screen you get, the more comfortable it is to play. This could be a very odd factor to deal with depending on your setup, and we have no details if there will be any calibration to deal with it. It's difficult to understand until you experience it yourself (and we expect this to be true of most Wii titles) but when you're up close you have to keep your hand very steady, and your movements subtle. Farther away you can act more like you're in a John Woo movie. To the demo's credit, though, it wasn't to demonstrate final gameplay at all, but just to give us an idea of how it plays. Ubisoft admitted the sensitivity would change, and that it was still exploring its options; with their deadline for launch this is understandable.

EDIT: hopefully that helps ;-)
bolded a few parts

 

[expletive]

I think all these are interesting but when i watch them and think about it from a marketplace perspective it really is the perfect second console, for those who would own 2 of them. I just cant see anyone who has owned a console before be willing to sacrifice what the PS3 and 360 are going to offer on screen for what the Wii offers off-screen. I'll probably get one of these but if i could only choose one console it would be my third choice.

 

[Natoma]

Thanks for the links hupfinsgack. I found this part of IGN's impressions most telling,

It's difficult to understand until you experience it yourself (and we expect this to be true of most Wii titles)

And that's been my primary argument from the beginning. People are making rather harsh judgements without having even tried the game yet.

And even with that detailed description from planetgamecube and IGN, I still really don't grasp how that would feel to play, which is the big reason why I said to cthellis that he doesn't know how the game is controlled.

No one does unless they've actually played it.

 

[Natoma]

I think all these are interesting but when i watch them and think about it from a marketplace perspective it really is the perfect second console, for those who would own 2 of them. I just cant see anyone who has owned a console before be willing to sacrifice what the PS3 and 360 are going to offer on screen for what the Wii offers off-screen. I'll probably get one of these but if i could only choose one console it would be my third choice.

You're talking to one such person.

I've owned consoles since the Colecovision and Atari 2600. Graphics are very important, but if the games of the new generation was the same as they were in the current one, but just with better graphics, that's just not appealing.

The big selling point for me with the Wii is the virtual console, the new ways in which games can be interacted with given the new controller, and the low price. If the Wii were like the Xbox 360 and PS3, i.e. graphics glitzed up, but the same controls and gaming paradigms, it'd be rather uninteresting for me.

Maybe I'm not the typical hardcore gamer anymore, but the Xbox 360 and PS3 don't hold any games that interest me enough to buy the system. But that's because they seem to be Xbox/PS2 games with prettier graphics.

If I do pick one up, it'd be after they drop below $200. I personally don't see the value at $400+.

 

[pc999]

So people here think that Redsteel looks better than "Black" on Xbox?

No, actually I think that many last gen games looked better than Wii ones, wonder how much time will take to surpasse last gen, after all we know that it is more powerfull than last gen.