New sony online gaming survey....

[expletive]

I think that is basically what Enchant Arm is. A game that you need the Hard drive to play. That and any MMORPG.

Yep, FF XI requires the HD. 5 Gigs for the demo from what ive heard.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Yes this is very true but to what extent? I probably was a bit vague in my statement probably, I figure saving games is pretty much a non issue here, it;s the bigger stuff that will prevent full use of the HDD. So saying "never" wasn't the right word to use here.

Another thing to point out is the HDD wil be used for episodic content, like MAss Effect which will offer additional level's and quests for download, so in that sense developers are using the HDD even though it's not 100% installed.

So that's an example where the developer has decided the HDD-userbase is large enough to support, even though it's not 100%.

 

[expletive]

Rumor has it the game was delayed because they coded thinking all 360's were going to have the HDD, now that they all don't they supposedly had to go back and make it work on the 360's that don't have it. I have no idea if this was confirmed or debunked or not, I just rememebr that being discussed somewhere. i never really followed up on it.

Ive never heard this rumor. Developers have known for quite some time there was to be no standard HD in the 360.

 

[Sis]

Yes this is very true but to what extent? I probably was a bit vague in my statement probably, I figure saving games is pretty much a non issue here, it;s the bigger stuff that will prevent full use of the HDD. So saying "never" wasn't the right word to use here.

Rumor has it the game was delayed because they coded thinking all 360's were going to have the HDD, now that they all don't they supposedly had to go back and make it work on the 360's that don't have it. I have no idea if this was confirmed or debunked or not, I just rememebr that being discussed somewhere. i never really followed up on it.

I don't know about the rumor though I rather doubt it. I believe devs were told that they had to make the game function without a hard drive from the beginnning.

That said, we discussed this several months ago. The conclusion I think we came to was that the hard drive does not add any new break through experiences. I love it for it's storage. And I'm sure some of the MMOs will make good use of it. But the examples where a hard drive is an absolute requirement for a compelling game feature are few and far between.

 

[scooby_dooby]

According to Allard, they knew in 2004 not to count on all 360's having a HDD installed.

The argument for HDD has always been that it's a performance enhancing piece of hardware, it doesn't create any amazing new possiblities, just as an extra 64mb of ram does not create any amazing new possibilities, it just increase performance.

So the fact it's a performance enhancing piece of hardware, and it eliminates need for costly memory cards, and allows much more interactive content like game downloads, game updates, and demo's make a sound argument IMO why all consoles should come equipped with HDD's.

But, as long as the consumers are content with shelling out cash for overpriced memory cards, and don't demand the functionality, and keep making excuses why we shouldn't get HDD's, we'll continue to have the equivalent of $2000 pc's with no permanent storage devices.

 

[Synergy34]

I think that is basically what Enchant Arm is. A game that you need the Hard drive to play. That and any MMORPG.

I'm not familar with that game so I won't comment on it. Well, any MMORPG, but how many do we know about on the 360, and what other platforms are they on. Anything on the PC here doesn't really count IMO, since the potential market is so big, cutting out the non HDD 360 users really doesn't make a difference.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I've never ead anything about EM needing a HDD, do you a link?

 

[expletive]

Seeing how things are evolving, i think the strategy so far by MS has been a good one. No HD standard, yet 80% with it as an option. I cant see things like demos and trailers being available for a console that does not offer a standard HD in one of its primary configs. For example, if the PS3 does not come with a HD and it iss only available as an option, do you think anyone is going to bother making game demos available online?

 

[Kb-Smoker]

You are right, but I wasn't trying to be completely serious either.


But you are indeed correct. The following are not features of Xbox Live.



But pretty much everything else is straight from XBL.

* 1. On a typical day, how often do you play games online?
* 2. Do you own a PSP?
* 3. What is your preferred Online gaming format?
* 4. What Online Gaming Formats do you own?
* 5. Do you think you will purchase a PS3?
* 6. A single identity and password for all online games?
* 7. Global Lobbies allowing you to play against anyone in the world?
* 8. Game Lobbies should be language based. (English, French, German etc)
* 9. Game Lobbies should be based geographically.
* 10. A standard, interactive lobby structure for all games.
* 11. Headset support in all online games?
* 12. A QWERTY keyboard as standard for messaging.
* 13. USB Keyboard support for every online title.
* 14. Friend List allowing you to see online/offline status?
* 15. Friend List allowing you to see what game your friends are playing?
* 16. Private Messaging across games?
* 17. A feedback rating allowing you to choose who you play against?
* 18. Ability to remove players out via a majority vote?
* 19. Game Host has the ability to remove players?
* 20. Automatically filter opponents based on connection quality?
* 21. The ability to download music, game demos and other content?
* 22. Ability to access the dedicated game forum whilst in game?
* 23. Ability to take screenshots during the game and share them with friends?
* 24. Ability to take movie clips in game and share them with friends?
* 25. Ability to play my music during a game?
* 26. An in game grief reporting system?
* 27. Ability to access and manage your gaming profile via PC, PSP as well as PS3?
* 28. Community features without the need for a game disc.
* 29. Ability to choose an Avatar for all online titles.
* 30. The inclusion of a web browser.
* 31. A specific lobby only for Adults.
* 32. Service should feature a Global Ranking system for each game.
* 33. Game Lobbies should be Eyetoy compatible.

Little more than you think. Most of those other features are standard in PC games too.

 

[Synergy34]

I've never ead anything about EM needing a HDD, do you a link?

Are you talking about Enchant Arm? i skimmed the IGN article about it, it doesn't say anything about needing the HDD, just that it will cache levels to quicken load times.

Is Enchant Arm going to be released outside of Japan, IGN says Japan Only? If this is the case then you can toss this game out of the arguement. Japan is a 100% HDD zone. An exclusive game developed for Japan only is understandable.

 

[expletive]

Little more than you think. Most of those other features are standard in PC games too.

I believe that the 360 does support a usb keyboard for text entry in any titles that require it but just not a KB/Mouse config for playing FPS games.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

I believe that the 360 does support a usb keyboard for text entry in any titles that require it but just not a KB/Mouse config for playing FPS games.

i didn't think MS supported KB in any online games....

 

[Titanio]

Seeing how things are evolving, i think the strategy so far by MS has been a good one. No HD standard, yet 80% with it as an option. I cant see things like demos and trailers being available for a console that does not offer a standard HD in one of its primary configs. For example, if the PS3 does not come with a HD and it iss only available as an option, do you think anyone is going to bother making game demos available online?

The percentage of X360-owners with a HDD is not guaranteed to remain high. In fact, I can easily see a type of "core" pack becoming the predominant system on the shelves once MS tries to escalate pricing pressure on Sony. I think, in fact, a MS exec hinted at that possibility in an interview a little while ago.

Regarding PS3, one has to consider the relative pricing and capacity of removeable media on PS3. By the time PS3 launches in the US, you'll probably be able to buy a 1GB memory stick for the same price as X360's 64MB card (currently). And looking at the pace of capacity increases and price reductions on the memory stick line, that 1GB will turn into 2GB for the same price, likely not too far down the road. Within its lifetime, large removeable capacity will be cheap and easy on PS3, and that's without considering the potential of the other media options (some of which I think are cheaper than memory stick?). I think it's for this reason, for example, that NCSoft reserved criticism from Sony regarding a non-standard HDD, as it's quite likely a $40 or less memory stick on PS3 will accomodate their needs. And I think it's for the same reason that downloads of various kinds will indeed be available to most or all users if they so desire. Remember, also, that Connect for PSP will feature "games" and a variety of other media downloads - PS3 can at least expect the same.

 

[expletive]

The percentage of X360-owners with a HDD is not guaranteed to remain high. In fact, I can easily see a type of "core" pack becoming the predominant system on the shelves once MS tries to escalate pricing pressure on Sony. I think, in fact, a MS exec hinted at that possibility in an interview a little while ago.

Regarding PS3, one has to consider the relative pricing and capacity of removeable media on PS3. By the time PS3 launches in the US, you'll probably be able to buy a 1GB memory stick for the same price as X360's 64MB card (currently). And looking at the pace of capacity increases and price reductions on the memory stick line, that 1GB will turn into 2GB for the same price, likely not too far down the road. Within its lifetime, large removeable capacity will be cheap and easy on PS3, and that's without considering the potential of the other media options (some of which I think are cheaper than memory stick?). I think it's for this reason, for example, that NCSoft reserved criticism from Sony regarding a non-standard HDD, as it's quite likely a $40 or less memory stick on PS3 will accomodate their needs. And I think it's for the same reason that downloads of various kinds will indeed be available to most or all users if they so desire. Remember, also, that Connect for PSP will feature "games" and a variety of other media downloads - PS3 can at least expect the same.

I think theres is a utility difference between 1-2G of flash memory and a 20G HD. Since its likely the price of the HD will fall as well, youre talking about a 2G memory stick for $40 vs. a 20G HD for say $80. Whereas i dont think developers can readily 'count on' people having high enough capacity for memory sticks, sales of 20G HDs and premium editions are public information.

Agree that theres a chance the core pack becomes the standard though.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The percentage of X360-owners with a HDD is not guaranteed to remain high. In fact, I can easily see a type of "core" pack becoming the predominant system on the shelves once MS tries to escalate pricing pressure on Sony. I think, in fact, a MS exec hinted at that possibility in an interview a little while ago.

Since MS is so intent on pushing live, what I think you'll see is a cheap HDD to go along with the inexpensive core package.

So, once the HDD is dropped to the $60 range (and this may never happen) it would still probably be the choice of most consumers over the MC when the salesmen explains the benefits of XBMarketplace, downloadable demo's, trailers, unlimited game saves, faster load times, and all that other good stuff.

So, if MS can drop the price to be closer to the MC, then I see the percentage of HDD's staying extremely high. If they insist on keeping the $100 pricepoint, and drop a cheap core package, then I can see the installed base dropping big time.

 

[expletive]

i didn't think MS supported KB in any online games....

From the latest FF XI preview on teamxbox:

After registering a content ID, it’s back to more waiting and loading. The bottom line is: plan on setting aside around an hour to set Final Fantasy XI up for online play. Plan on additional set up time if you don’t have a USB keyboard to connect to the Xbox 360 (there’s a lot of text to enter both before and during the game, so it would behoove you to have one from the get), and if you’re not good at following directions.

And from the MS Support Site:

http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;909159

SYMPTOMS
You receive no response from the console when you connect a portable device to a USB port on the Xbox 360 console.
CAUSE
This behavior occurs if the portable device is not compatible with the Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system.
THINGS TO TRY
1. Make sure that the portable device is compatible with the Xbox 360 console. The following devices are compatible the Xbox 360 console: • Official Xbox 360 accessories
• Most USB mouse devices and USB keyboards
• Most digital cameras
• Many portable music players
• Many mass storage devices

 

[Sis]

From the latest FF XI preview on teamxbox:

And from the MS Support Site:

http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;909159

I can confirm that a usb keyboard definitely works in-dash. I don't have, nor any desire to have, FFXI beta, so I can't confirm that it works in-game.

 

[expletive]

I can confirm that a usb keyboard definitely works in-dash. I don't have, nor any desire to have, FFXI beta, so I can't confirm that it works in-game.

I dont suppose you tried a wireless usb KB? Id like to get a nice, small, wireless one to use.

 

[Titanio]

I think theres is a utility difference between 1-2G of flash memory and a 20G HD. Since its likely the price of the HD will fall as well, youre talking about a 2G memory stick for $40 vs. a 20G HD for say $80.

Well, I don't think PS3 HDDs will be quite so expensive, per gigabyte..

My point is, though, that one or two gigs is enough to give access to downloadable content. Or accomodate a MMORPG. Arguably less, even.

Whereas i dont think developers can readily 'count on' people having high enough capacity for memory sticks, sales of 20G HDs and premium editions are public information.

It may well become reasonable to expect a certain minimum amount of capacity as mem stick prices decrease, and capacity grows. There are a couple of things Sony could do here too - like mandating a minimum capacity for use with PS3, or even bundling a memory stick (say, 512MB?) with every system, effecting a minimum capacity across all systems. Or they could take a MS route, and do a pack with a HDD or large capacity memory stick (despite Harrison's personal views on that - I mean, they're doing that with PSP at the moment anyway).

The barrier to entry for downloadable content on PS3 will be quite low given the plethora of available and cheap media that you'll probably be able to use (memory sticks, obviously, but possibly/probably the other types too). Regardless, looking at the PSP experience, downloadable content will be a reality soon, and that's on a system where your only option is memory sticks.

Since MS is so intent on pushing live, what I think you'll see is a cheap HDD to go along with the inexpensive core package.

A HDD and tight price control are almost at odds with one another, though. There is no such thing as a "cheap" HDD, really, 20GB is already probably as cheap as you'll get (a lower capacity disk won't cost MS anything less - HDD prices tend to bottom out, not continually go down with lower capacity).

 

[Carl B]

The 360 hard drive is probably as cheap as it will ever be for MS to source, but Ithroughout it's life they will be able to lower the retail price from $100 (which is way way too high) and/or increase it's capacity while paying little more to source it (if any).