New sony online gaming survey....

[expletive]

Sorry, now I see what you mean. But this situation, in terms of HDD penetration, wouldn't be so different from that which Sony would be in, if the HDD is always optional, unless you think MS's prices would be cheaper. Sure, MS would have the initial contribution of the high HDD-owning early base, but that contribution would become smaller and smaller as the userbase grew.

Well the thing here is that the trend will have to CHANGE for this to become the reality. Currently 8 out of every 10 360s sold have a HD. If this trend changes in the future, then what youre saying is true. (And it may very well change, if the $150 360 doesnt have a HD then theres a good chance the ratio will shift).

However, if Sony does not have a SKU with s removeable storage device it will be an uphill climb to get where the 360 is TODAY in terms of HD storage attach rate.

The things i was talking about to begin with were game demos, game trailers, movie trailers, episodic content, etc. These are the kinds of things that will only be serviced by a HD, i cant see any flash memory affordably or practically filling the bill adeqautely.


What might be interesting is if MS allows people to use an XP PC for storage over a wired or 802.11a network. Think that would ever happen?

 

[Kb-Smoker]

From the latest FF XI preview on teamxbox:



And from the MS Support Site:

http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;909159

I was talking about in-game.

 

[expletive]

The Gyration keyboard. I was mainly looking for something to reliably use for HTPC gaming but it actually sounds about what you are looking for (namely, tiny keyboard, wireless, and works with 360). The mouse actually behaves like the Revolution controller. I've been trying it with an FPS and it takes some getting used to, but it's kind of cool. Pricey, though, at US$130. I've only had it for 2 days now, so all I can say for certain is that it did indeed work with the 360.

Ah, i was thinking something more like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823192001

$50. Maybe ill give it a try...

I was talking about in-game.

Why would you think it wouldnt work in-game for FF XI? I cant imagine them supporting it for the setup but not during actual gameplay.

 

[Titanio]

Well the thing here is that the trend will have to CHANGE for this to become the reality. Currently 8 out of every 10 360s sold have a HD. If this trend changes in the future, then what youre saying is true. (And it may very well change, if the $150 360 doesnt have a HD then theres a good chance the ratio will shift).

Yes, agreed, that's the possibility that was proposed.

The things i was talking about to begin with were game demos, game trailers, movie trailers, episodic content, etc. These are the kinds of things that will only be serviced by a HD, i cant see any flash memory affordably or practically filling the bill adeqautely.

It's an arguable point, as we've seen. I have videos, music and downloaded content for a game on my 512MB memory stick for PSP. OF COURSE a HDD is better, but to simply allow users to engage in this kind of activity, removeable media of a sufficient capacity is enough to get you going.

What might be interesting is if MS allows people to use an XP PC for storage over a wired or 802.11a network. Think that would ever happen?

It should happen, I think, although I'm not sure if they'd extend it to game data (executables and game save data). If PS3 is DLNA compliant, which seems very possible, there'd be a whole host of options available for this kind of thing too (but similarly, I would wonder if they'd allow game data or executables to stray from a local HDD or removeable media..). People were wondering initially what the bleep Kutaragi was talking about with "networked storage" and the like, but this is pretty much what he was talking about (but also, perhaps, extended over the internet - but storage like this over a local network is more feasible for now!).

 

[one]

What might be interesting is if MS allows people to use an XP PC for storage over a wired or 802.11a network. Think that would ever happen?

It may happen, but it's not sufficient for games to use because of the bandwidth.

 

[scooby_dooby]

People were wondering initially what the bleep Kutaragi was talking about with "networked storage" and the like, but this is pretty much what he was talking about (but also, perhaps, extended over the internet - but storage like this over a local network is more feasible for now!).

I've always figured he was referring to some sort of NAS device.
Like this: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1780729,00.asp

I'm skeptical that it ever see the light of day though.

 

[rounin]

It's an arguable point, as we've seen. I have videos, music and downloaded content for a game on my 512MB memory stick for PSP. OF COURSE a HDD is better, but to simply allow users to engage in this kind of activity, removeable media of a sufficient capacity is enough to get you going.

Lets also not forget people who have microHDDs through a CF/CF2 interface. I have a 4gig one I ripped from a Muvo2 that would do nicely for a few videos/demos

 

[expletive]

It may happen, but it's not sufficient for games to use because of the bandwidth.

I would imagine 100Mbits fast enough to simulate a 12x DVD CAV drive though dont you think?

 

[expletive]

Yes, agreed, that's the possibility that was proposed.

Right but by then youve had a whole 'generation' of 360s out there with hard drives, with LOADS of content and reasons to have one. So MS will either continue to bundle them, people will continue to buy the bundled version, or begin to buy a reduced-price HD peripheral.

It's an arguable point, as we've seen. I have videos, music and downloaded content for a game on my 512MB memory stick for PSP. OF COURSE a HDD is better, but to simply allow users to engage in this kind of activity, removeable media of a sufficient capacity is enough to get you going.

I dont think so. You have to remember the resolution of a PSP screen is about 1/8th that of the 360 and its small enough that you heavy compression is more forgivable. Video on your PSP is not going to be a 1:1 mapping for space on a game console in HD on a much larger screen.


The demos and movies out so far would fill up 512MB pretty much on their own. Sure its possible, but not really practical/functional.

 

[one]

I would imagine 100Mbits fast enough to simulate a 12x DVD CAV drive though dont you think?

If you limit it to ethernet 100Mbps is available but what I meant was game usages such as caching on HDD. As for 802.11a/g the bandwidth is 36-54Mbps which is not even sufficient for a Blu-ray video stream.

 

[expletive]

If you limit it to ethernet 100Mbps is available but what I meant was game usages such as caching on HDD. As for 802.11a/g the bandwidth is 36-54Mbps which is not even sufficient for a Blu-ray video stream.

Since all games need to also work without the HD wouldnt ethernet be adequate then?

I suppose even if you were able to keep your downloaded movies and demos 'offline' it would be a huge space saver.

I thought the highest bitrate for HD video was around 36Mbit/sec?

 

[typoEDR]

I received a little survey on PSP and internet/downloadable content.

*reads survey*

You're damn right I want downloadable game content.

 

[scooby_dooby]

i don't think you'll see anyting that is game related shared over the network, no episodic content, no game saves, no demo's. Although technically possible, it's probably too hard to make stable, requires extra work from dev's, and would require much more testing.

What you will see I think, is the storage of all types of multimedia content, downloaded through XBMarketplace but stored on the PC.

The media extender interface will also hook up to online stores, and you will prbbaly be able to download movies, music, and TV shows, which would be stored in the PC, just as recorded video is now.

What I'm really interested in is, how they will merge marketplace, with the media extender which seems to have it's own online 'marketplace', I wonder if they'll overhaul the extender to plug into the actual XBLive marketplace, and how the content downloaded from extender will interact with the content downloaded from marketplace.

It is possible that they will only allow MCE or Vista users to download movies and tv, thus eliminating any need to merge the two marketplaces/content repositories, and eliminating any issues with HDD space as well. In other words, all pay-for-video content downloaded could potentially be only available to MCE and Vista users, and would by default be stored on the PC (and therefore shared throughout the home) that makes the most sense, although it alienates anyone without a PC, or someone running XP or older...

 

[Sis]

If you limit it to ethernet 100Mbps is available but what I meant was game usages such as caching on HDD. As for 802.11a/g the bandwidth is 36-54Mbps which is not even sufficient for a Blu-ray video stream.

By Blu-ray video stream do you mean the encoded stream? Which would be 12-16 Mbps for VC-1 or mpeg4 or 20 Mbps for mpeg2, if I'm not mistaken. Or were you talking about the overall data throughput speed of the drive?

 

[Sis]

What might be interesting is if MS allows people to use an XP PC for storage over a wired or 802.11a network. Think that would ever happen?

I can see this working for game saves or arcade live saves (things that fit entirely into RAM upon load) but anything else and I'd imagine the issue falls down to latency from involving the network stack.

As well, there are two issues with why they wouldn't willingly do this with even game saves: 1) Security of the game content and 2) Loss of revenue from memory card purchases.

 

[one]

By Blu-ray video stream do you mean the encoded stream? Which would be 12-16 Mbps for VC-1 or mpeg4 or 20 Mbps for mpeg2, if I'm not mistaken. Or were you talking about the overall data throughput speed of the drive?

Well I meant BD-ROM playback as you can't rip only a video stream. The BD-ROM spec requires a 54Mbps data transfer rate as the minimum speed with interactive contents, while HD-DVD only requires 36Mbps. In addition, wireless throughput tends to be far lower than theoretical specs, anyway.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Does anybody else feel like what Sony has been trying to do with the PSP will be better fulfilled by the PS3 as much as I do? If you think about it, Sony's PSP online and other features are heck of a alot better than the PS2's features, and its a handheld for crying out loud. I think alot of features of the PSP will be ported over, "console style" if you will, to the ps3, and then some. (im referring to Cross Media bar, updatable firmware, web browser, lan and infrastructure online incorporated on most if not all games, downloadable content like wipeout, easy transferable gamesaves, ...and then some with incorperation of xbox live features, and eyetoy/headset features)

 

[Sis]

Well I meant BD-ROM playback as you can't rip only a video stream. The BD-ROM spec requires a 54Mbps data transfer rate as the minimum speed with interactive contents, while HD-DVD only requires 36Mbps. In addition, wireless throughput tends to be far lower than theoretical specs, anyway.

Once either a BR drive or an HD-DVD drive uncompresses the encoded video, isn't it going to be the identical output bandwidth?

Eh, regardless, I agree that wireless is less than ideal for HD video streaming.

 

[axia777]

First a REAL GPU instead of the usual low quality Sony manufactured crap
and now an Xbox Live Clone! Wow!

The title of this thread should be "Welcome to the 21st Century Sony!"

What's Next? Sony to actually use real art and interactive gameplay
instead of pre-rendered movies in their games?

Yah, and Microsoft never ripped off any ideas from anyone. Not that they ripped off the GUI from Apple or anything. It is all business. Rip off the next guy if his stuff is better. For any company not to do so would be business suicide.

 

[Ben-Nice]

Does anybody else feel like what Sony has been trying to do with the PSP will be better fulfilled by the PS3 as much as I do? If you think about it, Sony's PSP online and other features are heck of a alot better than the PS2's features, and its a handheld for crying out loud. I think alot of features of the PSP will be ported over, "console style" if you will, to the ps3, and then some. (im referring to Cross Media bar, updatable firmware, web browser, lan and infrastructure online incorporated on most if not all games, downloadable content like wipeout, easy transferable gamesaves, ...and then some with incorperation of xbox live features, and eyetoy/headset features)

Yep. I pretty much think it will be similar to whatever they launch in March for the PSP. Pretty much anything beats how it was before on PS2.