New Radeon core clocking at 450 Mhz and burning 11 watts

Come on guys, stop the fight.

Vince, by your definition any mobile chip si a bastardized version of its desktop brother ?

I like the wording "power optimized" chip much better.

Sure this is not a Pentium-M or Imageon 2300 kind of deal, the Mobile chip in question is related to the R300.

I would not call it bastardized as they did more than cutting in half Vertex and Pixel pipes IMHO.
 
Fine. Your opinion is that it is 'bastardised'. Mine is that it is not 'bastardised'.

Everyone can feel free to make up their own mind based on our reputations and having heard both sets of views. Or, just as likely, not give a monkeys :)

I repeat again, I do not post fine details on subjects which I do not have detailed knowledge (such as the power consumption of our chips) and I will make no comments about the actual or potential future technology of ATI, even if it is my own personal view with no internal knowledge.
 
Dio said:
Fine. Your opinion is that it is 'bastardised'. Mine is that it is not 'bastardised'.

Everyone can feel free to make up their own mind based on our reputations and having heard both sets of views. Or, just as likely, not give a monkeys :)

I repeat again, I do not post fine details on subjects which I do not have detailed knowledge (such as the power consumption of our chips) and I will make no comments about the actual or potential future technology of ATI, even if it is my own personal view with no internal knowledge.

Oh that is mean :( At least some hints :p
 
I've given out a couple of minor ones on the driver side - but basically when it comes to new hardware I'm not saying anything. :)
 
chapban. said:
FROM extremetech, the mobile 9700 performs like a desktop 9600.
From most of the reviews I've flipped through, somewhere between a desktop 9600 and a desktop 9600 Pro; depends on the situation. Damn good for a laptop solution, but certainly nowhere near desktop capabilities, and probably not what the Xbox 2 will be looking for. Depends how much heat they want to burn, how big they're making the console (they're definitely pushing for smaller physical size this time), and what cooling they're looking at... Not sure what we'll get, but I think they'll definitely be modding a desktop part down to fit their needs, rather than coming from the mobile direction, so it'll be another ball of wax.
 
Panajev2001a said:
Vince, by your definition any mobile chip si a bastardized version of its desktop brother ?

According to Chris Hook M11 ASIC is exactly the same as the RV360 ASIC, the differentiation is that M11 is packaged for mobile solutions. The heat and power characteristics of M11 are the same at RV360 (clock for clock).

In this sense the Mobile ASIC is exactly the same as its direct desktop counterpart (with more features enabled, eg: clockgating), however that ASIC is invariably a cut down version of a higher end architecture.
 
...

ATI licenses 'dynamic logic' tech for faster, cheaper chips
By Tony Smith
Posted: 06/02/2004 at 11:07 GMT
Stay up to date wherever you are, with The Register Mobile


ATI has licensed Intrinsity's Fast 14 'dynamic logic' chip design technology to help it create "future consumer products" - possibly even the graphics accelerator it is designed for the Xbox 2 - aka Xbox Next.

We first wrote about Intrinsity back in 2001, after it had demonstrated a 2.2GHz chip - back than, way faster than anything Intel, AMD, IBM or Motorola had come up with. This year it began sampling a 130nm DSP chip, FastMath, that runs at 2GHz, operating at 1V. Aimed at the wireless infrastructure market, FastMath is being fabbed by TSMC, ATI's own foundry partner.

Intrinsity's technology is based on Dynamic Logic, an old-style design methodology now relegated to a few, highly performance-sensitive circuits thanks to the arrival in the 1980s of automated design software and the CMOS manufacturing process that helped make it possible.

Today's Static Logic methodology - essentially chip-building by numbers - makes for slower, less efficient processors (by between 50 and 80 per cent, Intrinsity says) but ones that could be designed, tested and put into manufacturing for more quickly and cheaply than DL-designed parts.

To do DL properly has always required very highly skilled staff - and plenty of them. No wonder, then, it quickly became uneconomic to use the technique for all but a few on-chip units.

Intrinsity claims Fast 14 puts DL design on a par with SL. The company admits DL remains harder to do, but the cost of the extra work is much lower than it once was and the premium is justified by the extra performance it yields. Fast 14 comprises enhancements to the basic building blocks of a DL processor that not only make automated DL design tools effective but have the knock-on effect of reducing circuit noise - a major barrier to higher clock speeds - and increasing gate speeds.

ATI, at any rate, is impressed. Company engineering VP Bob Feldstein believes Fast 14 can "deliver up to four times the performance per silicon dollar when compared with standard design
Gigahertz XGPU2 coming out of this purhaps??
 
I think vince is being a bit silly in his wordings. I too thought that a mobile chip has features cut and other design changes to reduce power comsumption, but what's to stop ATI from including power consumption features in a desktop version of the chip if the market asks for it? I'd say nothing but "demand" for such a thing.

Also talking about the power consumption for an entire video board compared to a single chip, is a lop sided, unfair comment, as a full board has other sections that make it consume different amounts of power.
 
Re: ...

Qroach said:
I too thought that a mobile chip has features cut and other design changes to reduce power comsumption, but what's to stop ATI from including power consumption features in a desktop version of the chip if the market asks for it? I'd say nothing but "demand" for such a thing.

As is the case for virtually all the mobile offering these days there are no differences between the mobile version and the direct desktop counterpart (i.e. M10/RV360, M11/RV360, NV31M/NV31, NV34M/NV34 etc) and features that are a direct development for the mobile segements also find uses in the desktop versions - for instance, clock gating gives NVIDIA's desktop parts lower 2D speeds and the onchip thermal diode thats in RV350/RV360 as a requirement for M10/M11 also gives rise to OVERDRIVE in 9600 XT.

Deadmeat said:
Gigahertz XGPU2 coming out of this purhaps??

There have been a few comments along these lines in relation to this PR, i.e:

[url=http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0 said:
ExtremeTech[/url]]Another factor is Microsoft's much rumored Xbox2; last year, Microsoft said that ATI, and not Nvidia Corp., would suply the graphics technology for the game console. According to reports, Microsoft's Xbox group is anxious to cut costs in Xbox2, so a smaller, faster graphics unit could result in a cheaper Xbox2 bill of materials, but still offer the performance needed for next generation console

But I wonder if there is really much point - I think that you'd still want the advantage that a larger die and higher clocks and just cut costs over time.
 
Cutting costs over time would make the most sense, as you CAN cut costs over the next five years, but by and large one has to deal with the exact same chips performance-wise for that length of time as well--they don't get the benefit of improvements.
 
Re: ...

Deadmeat said:
Deadmeat said:
Gigahertz XGPU2 coming out of this purhaps??

There have been a few comments along these lines in relation to this PR, i.e:

ExtremeTech

I remember a rumor from awhile back saying R500 would be called "Radeon 2" because it was clocked at 2 Ghz. Of course that's just a rumor, and even if their target is 2 Ghz they might not hit it. But a guy can dream :D
 
I remember a rumor from awhile back saying R500 would be called "Radeon 2" because it was clocked at 2 Ghz. Of course that's just a rumor, and even if their target is 2 Ghz they might not hit it. But a guy can dream

The R500(Radeon 2) was supposed to have a 2Ghz clock and 2Ghz memory. It was supposed to be the 'big' thing. It did get pushed back and now the original R500 Is like the r600 now or something.
 
DaveBaumann said:
I'm not sure what you are trying to say there...?
Just agreeing, basically. If a larger die grants more performance, it makes more sense to squeeze out what you can in the beginning. So long as you have control over the chipware, you can cut costs over time to go from bleeding money to making money, but one is going to have to stick to the same performance throughout--so it's best to push for whatever performance one can right out of the gates, even if it hurts the wallet overly.
 
cthellis42 said:
DaveBaumann said:
I'm not sure what you are trying to say there...?
Just agreeing, basically. If a larger die grants more performance, it makes more sense to squeeze out what you can in the beginning. So long as you have control over the chipware, you can cut costs over time to go from bleeding money to making money, but one is going to have to stick to the same performance throughout--so it's best to push for whatever performance one can right out of the gates, even if it hurts the wallet overly.

Agreed.
 
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