New article on Cell (good!)

You think in 10 years Cell will be exactly like it is today?

This first iteration of Cell is just the beginning. God knows what Sony and IBM could do with Cell at 32nm 10 years from now. Intel will be left in the dust if Cell ever gets pushed into the desktop computing industry with a few tweaks to the design to make it handle general purpose OS apps as good as it handles everything else.
 
centerofadmiration said:
Intel will be left in the dust if Cell ever gets pushed into the desktop computing industry with a few tweaks to the design to make it handle general purpose OS apps as good as it handles everything else.
You haven't wrote much code for Cell have you? :devilish:

Cell and x86 simple aren't designed to compete. Both excel at different areas... maybe next decade they might start to converge and compete but for now be glad you typing this on an x86 (probably)

And anyway in 10 years, x86 will probably have more cores than the CBEA of that era. Read up on Intel's 2015 research project...
 
DeanoC said:
You haven't wrote much code for Cell have you? :devilish:

Cell and x86 simple aren't designed to compete. Both excel at different areas... maybe next decade they might start to converge and compete but for now be glad you typing this on an x86 (probably)

STI decides to improove mankind by making men REAL MEN giving you REAL MEN SIMD, REAL MEN scalar LOAD/STORE on SPE's, a REAL MEN PPU (the PPE)... and not a word of praise ;).

David-1.jpg


"Macho Macho Maaaan, I wanna be a Macho Man!"


J/K :p
 
Shifty Geezer said:
:p Not necessarily though. Perhaps an optical transmission system no further than 10cm from the CPU? Or an atomic storage system using charged atoms that keeps the GB of RAM local to the CPU? Faster processors are all very well but without faster RAM access they'll go nowhere. Try sticking a Cell on a 16MHz SIMM from 1990 and see how fast it runs a complex multiobject physics sim! Developing just faster multicore processors isn't going to see a faster processing future. As CPU performance goes hand in hand with RAM performance, I'm surprised the two components are treated as separate entities. I'd have thought it'd be better to develop both hand in hand as an overall system.
Fast RAM isn't actually very hard. And while 1 clock is a bit much, 3 or 4 is quite possible, which can be reduced in a pipeline. For an example, each SPE has 256kB of that. It's just very expensive.

Just take some SRAM chips, with multiple wide datapaths, and use a multi-chip carrier (like with a PII) and LOTS of pins/traces. And cool it with water or such. See? No problem. Only very expensive.
 
Edge said:
Intel's Platform 2015 sounds very much like CELL. So Sony/Toshiba/IBM have a 10 years advantage on Intel. Intel's Platform 2015 is an endorsement for CELL.

Um... yeah. Multi core systems have existed and were planned long before Cell and STI teamed up... Maybe you should reverse your thinking. Cell is/was a solution looking for a problem...
 
Mercury Systems announces new Cell-powered "PowerBlock200" for Military use

Didn't know if I should make a new thread, so thought I'd put it here:

http://www.mc.com/mediacenter/pr/news_details.cfm?press_id=2006_01_16_0900_091911_777668pr.cfm

In summary: a toaster-sized Cell computer for use in military vehicles and the like, for sensor processing, situational awareness etc. One Cell processor clocked at 3Ghz, 200Gflops. Due H1 2007.

Interesting that MC makes the claim that the chip carries the power of 12-20 PowerPC processors or 45 Pentium4s (I guess this is for the applications it envisages running on it..?). Also interesting in that I think it's the first announced application for Cell that's less powerful than PS3's Cell.

Pics:

PowerBlock-200c_tn.jpg


PowerBlock-220c-humvee_tn.jpg


Mercury Computer Systems Introduces the First Rugged Cell BE Processor-Based Computer - the PowerBlock 200
Unprecedented Processing Density to Propel Digital Battlefield Applications from the Research Laboratory to Networked Land-Mobile Vehicles


LONG BEACH, Calif., Jan. 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Mercury Computer Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: MRCY) announced the introduction of the PowerBlock(TM) 200 -- the third member of its Cell Broadband Engine(TM) (BE) processor-based family of hardware products, and the first rugged device designed with the Cell BE processor. The PowerBlock 200 product plan was unveiled during an exclusive reception at the Aquarium of the Pacific in Long Beach, California, prior to the opening of the Bus & Board Conference at which Mercury is exhibiting and co-presenting the keynote with IBM Corporation. Mercury displayed a mechanical prototype to illustrate the small footprint that will contain the PowerBlock 200's tremendous processing power.
The PowerBlock 200 processing appliance is designed to deliver the raw compute power needed to propel the vision of network-centric warfare from the research laboratory into the field. At 200 GFLOPS, the processing capacity of the PowerBlock 200 rivals that of 12-20 PowerPC(R) processors or 45 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 processors -- in a COTS-deployable ATR chassis about the size of a toaster.

The integrated network-centric warfare environment of the 21st century will provide soldiers with the ability to access and control vast arrays of deployed sensors in real time. Delivering on this vision of instantaneous data fusion and interpretive displays of the battlefield requires enormous processing power. Deploying these applications in tanks, armored personnel carriers, and Humvees demands an unprecedented level of processing density in a ruggedized enclosure that can stand up to the harsh environmental conditions of the battlefield.

The PowerBlock 200 processing appliance is designed to deliver the raw compute power needed to propel the vision of network-centric warfare from the research laboratory into the field. At 200 GFLOPS, the processing capacity of the PowerBlock 200 rivals that of 12-20 PowerPC(R) processors or 45 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 processors -- in a COTS-deployable ATR chassis about the size of a toaster. This configuration will enable defense contractors to deploy compute-intensive applications in places and spaces previously unthinkable. For example, the unprecedented processing density offered by the PowerBlock 200 will allow military prime contractors to deliver new levels of performance and capabilities in compute-intensive vehicle electronics (vetronics) applications, with:

-- Dramatically increased situational awareness throughout the fighting
force
-- Consolidation of a wide range of sensor processing tasks into a single
processing element, which significantly reduces vehicle weight and
simplifies logistics
-- Considerably enhanced effectiveness of existing data links through new
levels of intelligent data compression
-- Vastly accelerated response to threats detected in complex environments
through real-time sensor processing.

The PowerBlock 200 can also enhance other important data-intensive applications such as aided target recognition, tracking, geo-location and mapping, terrain rendering, video processing, image enhancement, feature extraction, communications processing, and more.

"The Cell BE processor was originally designed for the volume home entertainment market, but its architecture of nine heterogeneous on-chip cores is well-suited to the type of distributed, real-time processing that will power tomorrow's digital battlefield," said Craig Lund, Chief Technology Officer, Mercury Computer Systems, Inc. "At 200 GFLOPS, the Cell BE processor is an order-of-magnitude higher in performance than other processors. In defense computing, the availability of the Cell BE processor is an industry milestone akin to the introduction of AltiVec into the PowerPC architecture."

The PowerBlock 200 uses a 1/2 ATR Long Tall chassis designed for military applications in the harshest environments on land, sea, and in the air. It contains a single Cell BE processor and has Gigabit Ethernet, Fibre Channel, RS-232 and GPIO front panel interfaces. Other I/O options are available via open-standard mezzanine card expansion sites. The entire chassis will consume less than 400 W and support a self-contained cooling infrastructure that will conduct heat to the chassis walls. Customers interested in deploying the PowerBlock 200 can start migrating applications immediately using Mercury's Cell Technology Evaluation System (CTES), which recently started shipping to customers.

Developers can streamline time to deployment and boost application productivity by leveraging the Mercury MultiCore Plus(TM) Advantage. Multicore chips like the Cell BE processor provide a new level of performance for embedded applications, but increased programming complexity and power consumption create deployment challenges. The MultiCore Plus Advantage is a suite of products and services enabling application developers to harness the full potential of today's revolutionary multicore processors and stay ahead of their competition. Mercury draws upon 20+ years of experience in developing high-performance multicomputers in creating the numeric primitives, middleware, development tools, and enclosure solutions to enable customers to rapidly transform standalone multicore chips into complete system solutions. The Mercury MultiCore Plus Advantage product suite is optimized to take full advantage of the Cell BE processor and its revolutionary architecture. Visit www.mc.com/cell for more information on the Cell BE processor architecture.

The PowerBlock 200 is planned for shipment in the first half of calendar 2007. For more information on the PowerBlock 200, visit Mercury in Booth #14 at the Bus and Board Conference, visit www.mc.com/PowerBlock200, or call 866-627-6951.
 
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Developers & Engineers Weigh In on Cell

An IBM demo shows the contrast. A terrain rendering program lets you fly over Mount Rainier at 1,300mph. Cell crunches through millions of lines of topographical and photographic data per second to paint topographically accurate, photo-quality pictures at a movie-quality 30 frames per second. On a similar program a Pentium takes more than two minutes to sketch a single frame.


By early last year Sony was sending out Cell prototypes and software tools to get developers started on writing new games for PlayStation 3. “We’re seeing stuff that goes dramatically beyond what we can do with the current generation [of games],” says Andrew Goldman, chief executive of Pandemic Studios, a Los Angeles outfit that wrote a series of popular Star Wars games for PlayStation 2. “And what you will see over time is going to be even more amazing.” He says it will take years to fully exploit Cell’s capabilities.

The good news: Some designers say creating games for Cell is far less complicated than writing for PlayStation 2. “Anyone who worked on the PlayStation 2 is jumping for joy,” says Jeremy Gordon, chief executive of Secret Level, a gamemaker in San Francisco that is remaking a classic 1980s Sega videogame for the new Sony box.


I keep seeing developers saying this. I'm starting to believe that it's true. Why hasn't this been posted on here yet?

http://www.forbes.com/global/2006/0213/070A_print.html
 
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ERP said:
The last quote certainly has.

FWIW Jeremy and secret level in general are one of the more technically competent developers your going to hear from.

Oh snip are you serious? So, this guy carries alot of clout? Compared to Carmack how close would you think they are (yeah I know unfair comparison)?
 
Does it even matter? Carmack is just one programmer. I'm sure there are many just as "good", and he certainly can't compare to a whole team of good programmers. This pop culture worship of Carmack's allegedly "divine" programming skills just annoys me. If he was so "godly" he would be writing scripture, not code. :LOL:
 
DudeMiester said:
Does it even matter? Carmack is just one programmer. I'm sure there are many just as "good", and he certainly can't compare to a whole team of good programmers. This pop culture worship of Carmack's allegedly "divine" programming skills just annoys me. If he was so "godly" he would be writing scripture, not code. :LOL:
You mean his source code isn't scripture?! :oops:
;)
 
mckmas8808 said:
Oh snip are you serious? So, this guy carries alot of clout? Compared to Carmack how close would you think they are (yeah I know unfair comparison)?

there is a lot of Carmaks in gaming (you won't hear of much from them in console dev..)
JC is just the popular one ,because of some history of PC gaming.He's not the only high profile in these industries.
 
Carmack

_phil_ said:
there is a lot of Carmaks in gaming (you won't hear of much from them in console dev..)
JC is just the popular one ,because of some history of PC gaming.He's not the only high profile in these industries.

I always say biggest talent for Carmack is making sales. He is good talker. But real developer talent for console is many people in many companies who are not making complaints about "multiprocesor" every day but making super performance from not so easy "architecture" every day. They do amazing jobs but maybe they are not good talker so no one knows.
 
JC is the father of 3D FPS, that's why people worship him. There's nothing wrong wth that. Others just followed in his footsteps. Yes there are many talented programmers like him, but few have the honor of being called the father of any specific game genre. JC made a part of gaming history.
 
Old days

NANOTEC said:
JC is the father of 3D FPS, that's why people worship him. There's nothing wrong wth that. Others just followed in his footsteps. Yes there are many talented programmers like him, but few have the honor of being called the father of any specific game genre. JC made a part of gaming history.

I understand you my friend and i think in "old days" of 3D Carmack is real hot shot programmer.
 
Well up I have to admit that he hasn't made a dud engine in over 15 years, that has to be an achievment.

But personally I respect the coders at companies like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Bizarre Creations. Factor 5... well everyone who worked on a console game that turned out amazing resaults rather than compaining about lack of hardware capability. There are to many to list.
 
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Titanio said:
Let's not turn this into a "Carmack" thread. I think he would find Jeremy Gordon's comment agreeable.

I don't think he would quite frankly. If a PS2 dev would jump for joy (as Jeremy puts it) then why so much negativity from Carmack about the PS3 and the love towards the 360? Had he said something like Jeremy Gordon the forums would have turned upside down months ago and you know Titanio.:p
 
mckmas8808 said:
I don't think he would quite frankly. If a PS2 dev would jump for joy (as Jeremy puts it) then why so much negativity from Carmack about the PS3 and the love towards the 360? Had he said something like Jeremy Gordon the forums would have turned upside down months ago and you know Titanio.:p

A PS2 dev would jump for joy cause now hey actually have a real GPU, simple as that.

Carmack is used to having fully featured PC GPU's, so it's not so 'exciting' for him ;)
 
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