New 360 controller?

[Shifty Geezer]

More like the Reflex controller from Bodilobus, formerly known as White Fusion.

Anyhow, MS has had two incidents now discussing new controllers with the intent to improve FPS on the 360, which doesn't seem out of whack considering "Live Anywhere" and Vista as a platform. (Yes, I very much like some trackballs; no, I am not a big fan of thumb sticks for FPS).

It seems this is a very targetted controller, primarily (exclusively?) for FPS. If you're going to give players that option, why not go with KB+M? Or maybe something more specific for FPS rather than just a controller with a trackball? Unless the trackball can be useful for other genres, I think better solutions can be found for FPS. You'd also have the problem that we've heard for game matching - not wanting to pitch gamers with KB+M against those on controllers.

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

Forget the track ball; the Touch Sphere (tm) is the Future(c).

With accelerometers and, more importantly, laser pointers. Kick your friend's ass both in AND out of the game at the same time with this innovative feature!

 

[Nesh]

Here is a new one for the PS2. I remember reading about the prototype here some time ago.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/708/708054p1.html

"Once my brain learned not to compensate for an analog stick's acceleration, I attained a level of accuracy I had never experienced without a mouse and keyboard combination."

I hope they come out with one for the 360.

Man that controller should have been implemented ages ago on official controllers!

 

[Sis]

I would disagree with you even if they had rumble they still would be "imitating"..because MS's did'nt add it on their own accord...they add it after everyone esle was doing it.

I was playing with the wording: it's "worst" form of imitation whenever you copy something, warts and all.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Immediately upon the release of the wiimote, I stated that MS and Sony were going to have designs and prototypes built on the chance that Nintendo's gambit paid off. Sony very quickly re-did their controller to add that functionality, and I'm pretty sure that MS has their own versions. As was pointed out, they had their own version 10 years ago. So who is copying who? What does it matter?

I do actually have an interesting question, however.. those trackball controllers look fantastic. They seem to get great reviews. They seem to solve the biggest problem that the PC crowd has with console gaming. So.. what's the problem? They've been making these things for years, why are they being ignored and not adopted? Is there a long-term functionality issue? (trackball gets 'sticky' or something?)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I do actually have an interesting question, however.. those trackball controllers look fantastic. They seem to get great reviews. They seem to solve the biggest problem that the PC crowd has with console gaming. So.. what's the problem? They've been making these things for years, why are they being ignored and not adopted? Is there a long-term functionality issue? (trackball gets 'sticky' or something?)

My guess would be trackballs have both a higher learning curve and less use in other genres. If you consider the most use made of the right-stick is for camera movement, that doesn't map ideally onto a trackball as far as I can see. And getting good with a trackball needs some experience, like a mouse. If you consider how long it takes people to get used to using a mouse fluidly, asking them to learn a trackball for games is probably asking too much.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

If you consider the most use made of the right-stick is for camera movement, that doesn't map ideally onto a trackball as far as I can see.

??? I thought that was the main 'downfall' of gamepads in FPS, that you can't turn around quickly/accurately enough compared to use of a mouse?

And getting good with a trackball needs some experience, like a mouse. If you consider how long it takes people to get used to using a mouse fluidly, asking them to learn a trackball for games is probably asking too much.

That I certainly agree with. I hate trackball mouses for exactly that reason. Takes too long to get the sensitivity tuned in right and get used to spinning the ball instead of moving the entire mouse. But I'm wondering if learning curve is the only obstacle. Nintendo and Sony don't seem to have a problem with forcing new control schemes on their customers. I think if Sony had actually produced that trackball controller, they'd have gotten a step up on the Xbox for FPS fans.

Likewise, if Microsoft produced one it would help bridge the gap between M&K fans and console users.

But I must say, I definately do not like the implication that there will be a dozen 'specialized' controllers depending on the gaming genre. Steering wheels for racing games are about as far as I'm willing to go, and even those I think are retarded. (Due to size and storage, not for any fault of their usefulness.)

 

[Powderkeg]

If you consider the most use made of the right-stick is for camera movement, that doesn't map ideally onto a trackball as far as I can see.

Sorry, but WHAT?

Let's see, a trackball is basically an upside-down mouse. What do you normally use a mouse for in video games? Camera movement by chance?

And getting good with a trackball needs some experience, like a mouse. If you consider how long it takes people to get used to using a mouse fluidly, asking them to learn a trackball for games is probably asking too much.

It takes some adjusting, but no more so than any other new controller. And it would open up RTS's as a real possibility for consoles.

 

[Acert93]

I do actually have an interesting question, however.. those trackball controllers look fantastic. They seem to get great reviews. They seem to solve the biggest problem that the PC crowd has with console gaming. So.. what's the problem? They've been making these things for years, why are they being ignored and not adopted? Is there a long-term functionality issue? (trackball gets 'sticky' or something?)

I have been following these guys for nearly 2 years, so I have heard of some of the problems.

The first is support. You cannot slap a TB Gamepad into a console and have it "work". It is the same reason many games have problems with the FragBox KB/MS adapter: Games with a thumbstick limit max speed and often have time/stick lean based acceleration (e.g. push all the way left for 1 second and then you begin to move even faster after 1 second). So games must natively support the product. Chicken-and-Egg. You need games to support the gamepad to sell the gamepad, and you need to sell the gamepad to get game support. UT for the PS2 works with the pad, but that is because the game supports KB/MS.

So the issue then becomes licensing. We all know where Nintendo went and Sony/MS went more traditional routes (although Sony added sixaxis). Sony is supporting KB/MS, but they seem quite mum on it. So without a big backer (Logitech?) they are just a little peripheral with no killer app. Add in MS's concern over "advantage" for FPS (heh, figher sticks, flight sticks, wheels, dance pads, cameras all fly under the radar of course) there is a bit of resistance for the move on the MS end.

As for cleaning, optical TBs are easy to clean. Just pop out the ball, wipe with a clean cloth, and done. A well designed one won't grind/stick to finger jam. I have used a number of TBs. My most recent one I used for 2 years over 8 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week and the ball is still in great condition.

We will see. I am optimistic as my hands, specifically my thumbs, cannot hand thumb sticks anymore (dumb repetitive use issues).

It takes some adjusting, but no more so than any other new controller. And it would open up RTS's as a real possibility for consoles.

Big door for RTS! Anyhow, they may take some getting used to (IGN claimed 10 minutes), but remember this: Thumbsticks take a while as well, and some FPS are still poorly designed with them. And having watched a LOT of videos and first hand people play with thumb sticks, I must say they are lousy for FPS in many peeps hands. My wife, for example, can use KB/MS no probs, but thumbsticks she stares at the ceiling/floor the entire time and when looking straight cannot fine move the thumbstick enough to even get on target. At Xboxyde we see a lot of videos of the game press and casuals at game shows/events (GDC, E3, GC, TGS, X0#, etc) and as a general rule people are HORRIBLE with gamepads. IMO that is the big hurdle in Console gaming--FPS are maybe the largest genre, but very little has been done to adapt the cotroller to meet those unique needs of first person, interactive gameplay that requires quick and percise movements.

 

[Snyder]

It seems this is a very targetted controller, primarily (exclusively?) for FPS. If you're going to give players that option, why not go with KB+M?

I guess one of the main reasons for that is: KB+M (as much as I prefer them for suitable game types) simply suck on a couch.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Well, there's that plus the whole idea that consoles are normally more social instruments than PCs are.

As annoying as a K&M are on the couch, can you imagine having four people trying to use them? If you could get the same accuracy out of a gamepad, it'd definately be a huge victory.

 

[groper]

I guess one of the main reasons for that is: KB+M (as much as I prefer them for suitable game types) simply suck on a couch.

Besides with KB+M players must forget rumble + trigers. I supose that Ms dont want to pull-off some cool feautures in order to add some other but to give the ability for better aimming keeping at the same time all the pros of a gaming device. Hope this time they will bring to the table something better than this

 

[Acert93]

Well, there's that plus the whole idea that consoles are normally more social instruments than PCs are.

As annoying as a K&M are on the couch, can you imagine having four people trying to use them? If you could get the same accuracy out of a gamepad, it'd definately be a huge victory.

Yeah. I have some hope for Wii, but IGN was pretty positive about the TB after only 10 minutes. Sounds like a good compromise between percision and the special needs of "couch gamers"

 

[Rolf N]

I guess one of the main reasons for that is: KB+M (as much as I prefer them for suitable game types) simply suck on a couch.

That's not a reason to prohibit the option.
Some people don't care how much it sucks on a couch, either because they don't play on the couch, or they found a way to make it work for them. Just because you, or even a majority, can't imagine playing with KB+M doesn't mean everybody should be forced to comply with such arbitrary restrictions.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Just because you, or even a majority, can't imagine playing with KB+M doesn't mean everybody should be forced to comply with such arbitrary restrictions.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing arbitrary about MS's decision not to allow KB&M gaming. I'm also pretty sure it has something to do with the Xbox being the FPS'ers console of choice.