NEC Electronics on Xenos (downspec in dice interconnect bandwidth?)

[Vennt]

You are missing something. The letters LSI.

The LSI is not the GPU. It's the interface chipset between the processor(s) and the RAM subsystems it attaches to. RAID hard drive arrays also use LSI's to control data throughputs.

Thank you!

Now your post makes sense to me.

Not so much a reading comprehension problem as an acronym overload problem

 

[Powderkeg]

Thank you!

Now your post makes sense to me.

Not so much a reading comprehension problem as an acronym overload problem

LSI = Large Scale Integration.

It's a goofy term. Basically it's the set of transistors within a processor that controls how the processor interacts with outside devices.

 

[Argyle]

You are missing something. The letters LSI.

The LSI is not the GPU. It's the interface chipset between the processor(s) and the RAM subsystems it attaches to. RAID hard drive arrays also use LSI's to control data throughputs.

LSI just stands for "large scale integration" as in "a chip with lots of transistors in it", if I'm not mistaken.

My Japanese is poor but I read the diagram at the end of the original post as "22.4GB/sec between the NEC Electronics EDRAM LSI and the TSMC graphics LSI", which does seem to refer to the GPU (isn't it being fabbed at TSMC?)...

 

[Argyle]

LSI = Large Scale Integration.

It's a goofy term. Basically it's the set of transistors within a processor that controls how the processor interacts with outside devices.

Sorry for the double post, I guess you can't edit posts here?

You got the acronym right, but as far as I know, you got the definition wrong.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C006657/electronics/integrated_circuit.htm

If anything, I think they're just using LSI to mean "chip" since I would think either die would be considered a "ULSI" according to the above webpage, if you wanted to split hairs...

 

[darkblu]

You are missing something. The letters LSI.

The LSI is not the GPU. It's the interface chipset between the processor(s) and the RAM subsystems it attaches to. RAID hard drive arrays also use LSI's to control data throughputs.

LSI is an acronym from the semiconductor industry verbatimly meaning 'large scale integration' but also occasionally used as lingo for 'a compex IC'. there's also a chip vendor company under the name of LSI- they make different controllers, includingly disk controllers.

 

[darkblu]

LSI = Large Scale Integration.

It's a goofy term. Basically it's the set of transistors within a processor that controls how the processor interacts with outside devices.

powderkeg, you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Vennt]

I thought it referred to Large Scale Integration initally too, Powerkegs post reminded me of the LightSpeed Interconnect interpretation, this is what I mean by acronym overload...

Which brings us really back to square one doesn't it?

How about we cut to the chase until further data is available, What kind of effect will this have in the real world if true?

* None, beyond internet-forum driven pissing contests
* Miniscule, nothing visible.
* Small amount, larger cost for "free" AA etc.

etc etc etc.

In other words, if this downgrade is true is this something I can really expect to see the effects of with later 360 title purchases?

 

[Powderkeg]

Sorry for the double post, I guess you can't edit posts here?

You got the acronym right, but as far as I know, you got the definition wrong.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C006657/electronics/integrated_circuit.htm

If anything, I think they're just using LSI to mean "chip" since I would think either die would be considered a "ULSI" according to the above webpage, if you wanted to split hairs...

An LSI is a set amount of transistors within a chip. anywhere between 3,000 to 100,000 transistors make up an LSI. 100,000 to 1 million would be a VLSI. Mot than 1 million would be a ULSI.

Xenos has 232 million transistors. That makes it way too large to be an LSI.

 

[Powderkeg]

powderkeg, you have no clue what you're talking about.

And you think you do?

Tell me something, what's the difference between an LSI and a SSI?

 

[darkblu]

An LSI is a set amount of transistors within a chip. anywhere between 3,000 to 100,000 transistors make up an LSI. 100,000 to 1 million would be a VLSI. Mot than 1 million would be a ULSI.

Xenos has 232 million transistors. That makes it way too large to be an LSI.

again, LSI is occasionally used as lingo for a 'large complex IC'. the V, U or whatever comes next is omitted. just like when people say VGA when they refer to devices technically of resolutions way beyond UVGA/XVGA.

ps: a piece of advice: next time google _before_ you jump into a topic you have no clue about.

 

[Argyle]

An LSI is a set amount of transistors within a chip. anywhere between 3,000 to 100,000 transistors make up an LSI. 100,000 to 1 million would be a VLSI. Mot than 1 million would be a ULSI.

Xenos has 232 million transistors. That makes it way too large to be an LSI.

If you are arguing that they are not referring to Xenos as an "LSI" because of the strict 1970's era definition of "LSI"...*sigh*

Here are some random links from Google of various Japanese companies referring to their IC's as "LSIs"...

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200409/04-0907aE/
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2004_09/pr2803.htm
http://www.ntt.co.jp/tr/0405/ntr200405/ntr200405006.pdf
http://www.sanyo.co.jp/giho/no59/data-e.html
http://www.nikonusa.com/fileuploads/pdfs/D2X.pdf

 

[seismologist]

Yeah it appears some people don't know how to read. This is the bandwidth between the EDRAM and the GDDR3 main ram. NOT the bandwidth between Xenos and the EDRAM.

um, no. original post was correct. SIP = system in package = Xenos.

It looks like there's been a sepc downgrade. Possible a clock speed reduction. No big deal.

 

[pakpassion]

um, no. original post was correct. SIP = system in package = Xenos.

It looks like there's been a sepc downgrade. Possible a clock speed reduction. No big deal.

riiiiiiight. before you jump to conclusions why dont we ask someone like Dave Baumann who has contacts in ATI about this shall we?

 

[pakpassion]

again, LSI is occasionally used as lingo for a 'large complex IC'. the V, U or whatever comes next is omitted. just like when people say VGA when they refer to devices technically of resolutions way beyond UVGA/XVGA.

ps: a piece of advice: next time google _before_ you jump into a topic you have no clue about.

im sorry but LSI stands for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSI

yes thats right..... Large Scale Integration, so PowerKeg is right and you are wrong.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

Wait for Dave, IMO. I can see three options that would make sense:

1. Xenos has been downclocked to 350MHz with the bus running in synch with eDRAM and GPU. (HA! Not bloody likely)

2. Xenos has been upgraded to 700MHz with the bus running at 1/2 speed due to timing constraints getting a 512bit external bus synched at that speed. (HA! Equally unlikely)

3. This diagram is flat out wrong. (ding ding ding)

I don't know if they'd slow the eDRAM itself, and I can't see them running an asynch bus between the two parts. I'd like Dave to weigh in on this and clear the air. PEACE.

 

[pakpassion]

Wait for Dave, IMO. I can see three options that would make sense:

1. Xenos has been downclocked to 350MHz with the bus running in synch with eDRAM and GPU. (HA! Not bloody likely)

2. Xenos has been upgraded to 700MHz with the bus running at 1/2 speed due to timing constraints getting a 512bit external bus synched at that speed. (HA! Equally unlikely)

3. This diagram is flat out wrong. (ding ding ding)

I don't know if they'd slow the eDRAM itself, and I can't see them running an asynch bus between the two parts. I'd like Dave to weigh in on this and clear the air. PEACE.

or 4. the figure 22.4 is true for EDram to GPU but then the GPU to Memory is actually 32 instead of 22.4

 

[darkblu]

im sorry but LSI stands for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSI

yes thats right..... Large Scale Integration, so PowerKeg is right and you are wrong.

cudos that you know how to use wikipedia. now go to the previous page and read my first post in this thread.

 

[seismologist]

im sorry but LSI stands for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSI

yes thats right..... Large Scale Integration, so PowerKeg is right and you are wrong.

no Powderkeg is wrong here. I'm not talking about his ability to use google to look up the definition of LSI. But what he said about this diagram supposedly referring to some off-chip Dram controller. Huh? Sorry but no.

 

[pakpassion]

no Powderkeg is wrong here. I'm not talking about his ability to use google to look up the definition of LSI. But what he said about this diagram supposedly referring to some off-chip Dram controller. Huh? Sorry but no.

lets wait for Dave Baumann to see who is humiliated.

So Dave, we are waiting for you

 

[MechanizedDeath]

im sorry but LSI stands for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSI

yes thats right..... Large Scale Integration, so PowerKeg is right and you are wrong.

No, he's wrong. IC's have been referred to as LSIs for years now. It's a generic term that has little to do with actual tranny counts these days. This has been the case for over a decade now, probably longer. This is using semantics, b/c while the acronym once had a specific meaning, that meaning has been lost for quite some time now. Anyone who's worked in the semiconductor industry knows this. LSI is almost interchangeable with IC these days. PEACE.