nAo talks about Heavenly Sword (You need to read this)

[London Geezer]

The black levels for the X-series are reportedly the best for LCD screens, like the V-series too afterall.
Full backlight control and high contrast help a lot, and LCDs have come a long way in this area.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Well, the black levels aren't that bad on modern LCD's.
Sure, they're not a match for a crt, but perfectly acceptable for a non videophile viewer.

The true 1080p displays are getting quite affordable, even the large ones, but you'll have to sacrifice from the "flatness" and look at the rear and front projection units.
The Sony 1080p SXRD rptv's seem like a very tempting option as I'm looking for a HD display. They've been available in US for some time now, and should arrive in EU this autumn.
Also, quality 1080p front projectors in the sub €4000 price range should be available by the end of year.
If you want a big picture, plasma or lcd flatscreens aren't really the most economic option, nor are they best when it comes to image quality.

 

[Fafalada]

If you want a big picture, plasma or lcd flatscreens aren't really the most economic , nor are they best when it comes to image quality.

LCDs are likely the least economic for big sizes. I disagree about picture quality though - in my experience Plasma beats everything except CRTs hands down.

 

[kyleb]

Yeah Rabidrabbit, as far as big displays go, what are you suggesting bests plasma?

 

[London Geezer]

Mmm well the only 1080p plasma available any time soon in Europe will be the new Pioneer one, and that will set you back about 5 grand (in pounds!)...
The Sony X-series has really really good image quality (whatever people say), the best LCD can give you today, and at 1080p for the 40" one, it costs almost half the price of the Pioneer. It also goes all the way up to 56" which is massive.

The AVForums really help if you're looking to buy a new TV (or any AV related equipment really). There is a huge thread about the X-series there.

Personally i'll take LCD over plasma any day for a number of reasons. It all comes down to taste really... The black levels on the Sony Bravias are really really good, and the advantages in all other areas are hard to beat. And they keep getting better.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Yeah Rabidrabbit, as far as big displays go, what are you suggesting bests plasma?

With big picture, I mean 50" and above.
A 1080p plasma the size of 50" I believe will be a lot more than a 1080p front/rear projector set for some years to come.

I'm willing to eat my words on the plasma image quality though.

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, the 1080p plasmas are quite pricey and likely will be for a long time, but how many people are going to sit so close to such a large display to be able to visual resolve all that resolution anyway?

 

[London Geezer]

Yeah, the 1080p plasmas are quite pricey and likely will be for a long time, but how many people are going to sit so close to such a large display to be able to visual resolve all that resolution anyway?

Are you trying to say that 1080p is useless because "people aren't going to sit so close to such a large display to be able to visual resolve all that resolution anyway"?

Careful, you don't wanna create another monster...

 

[kyleb]

I'm just saying that most people I see using 50" displays tend to sit 10' back or further which puts them in a position to not even be able to visusally resolve a full 720p image, in which case 1080p would be serious overkill and the extra money would be better spent on beer. Of course if you do plan to sit much closer, then having that higher resolution can be useful.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm just saying that most people I see using 50" displays tend to sit 10' back or further which puts them in a position to not even be able to visusally resolve a full 720p image, in which case 1080p would be serious overkill and the extra money would be better spent on beer. Of course if you do plan to sit much closer, then having that higher resolution can be useful.

I know, i was just teasing knowing that some people we all know get very emotional with this kind of discussions

Personally, i think the best thing about the Sony X is that they take in a 1920*1080 input through DVI (HDMI). Plug a decent PC or HTPC and that thing will really shine. Imagine playing Crysis at 1920*1080 on a 56" HDTV... You'd probably need a quad-core and a quad-SLI configuration to play that at such high resolution at full detail, but that's another discussion alltogether!

 

[rabidrabbit]

I like to sit about three meters from a 100" front projected screen.
Five meters might still be ok, but further than that, it would lose much of the big screen effect.
At five meters I certainly can tell the difference between a good quality standard definition DVD and a 720p video on a 100" screen without the 720p pixel structure (screendoor effect) disturbing at all unless I specifically look for it. The picture looks smooth, "film-like" and high resolution.

Currently I view a 50" SD CRT RPTV from three meters, and that's still good for a big screen film-like effect, although from at that distance the convergence errors catch my eye a bit too often.

I wouldn't put a 50" plasma on my desktop to be used as a PC monitor, sitting less than a meter away from it, that's true. But I would put that 3 meters away and expect to enjoy the difference between 720p and 1080p.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Yeah, the 1080p plasmas are quite pricey and likely will be for a long time, but how many people are going to sit so close to such a large display to be able to visual resolve all that resolution anyway?

Those who buy big flat HD screens just to "show off", maybe.

 

[kyleb]

But you have to understand that rendering resolution and display resolution are two separate factors. I recently uploaded a pic for a discussion on another forum which illustrates that point:

CS:S rendered at 1920x1080 and displayed on my 852x480 plasma

 

[London Geezer]

I wouldn't put a 50" plasma on my desktop to be used as a PC monitor, sitting less than a meter away from it, that's true.

No? Why?! You would never need those silly "Virtual Reality glasses"...

Seriously, if you're about to splash out big money for a new HDTV, you should really head to the AVForums (that's the EU-UK one, the US one is the AVSforum). It's really a helpful place, as long as you don't get sucked in to the peer pressure of people telling you you're a worthless man unless you spend 3 grand on a TV...

 

[rabidrabbit]

But you have to understand that rendering resolution and display resolution are two separate factors. I recently uploaded a pic for a discussion on another forum which illustrates that point:

CS:S rendered at 1920x1080 and displayed on my 852x480 plasma

You have to remember that PC games like Counter-Strike don't have a lot when it comes to fine detail (especially fine background detail), much less than movies and hopefully better next gen console games.
A 1920 x 1080 "Counter-Strike" is still very very "low resolution" in other areas except edge aliasing.

Seriously, if you're about to splash out big money for a new HDTV, you should really head to the AVForums (that's the EU-UK one, the US one is the AVSforum). It's really a helpful place, as long as you don't get sucked in to the peer pressure of people telling you you're a worthless man unless you spend 3 grand on a TV...

I've been to many places, not all english speaking forums, to learn and get hints for my next purchases. The AVS (and AV) certainly are good places for user opinions, but I do believe old-fashioned professional reviews with measurements and my own eyes are still better than these new internet forums which leave me confused more than anything else.

 

[kyleb]

You have to remember that PC games like Counter-Strike don't have a lot when it comes to fine detail (especially fine background detail), much less than movies and hopefully better next gen console games.
A 1920 x 1080 "Counter-Strike" is still very very "low resolution" in other areas except edge aliasing.

I don't get what you are trying to say here. Are you thinking that fine detail in the background like the tips of the branches and stuff wouldn't come though as well if there was more of it?

 

[London Geezer]

Well, just let me know if you have any cash left!! I could do with a new 46" HDTV!
Kyleb, we all know that taking pictures directly of the TV is not really the best way to judge IQ... Not saying you're misleading us, just making a point.

I think this thread is awfully off-topic now, we should take it back on topic:

nAo, you're the best. You're italian afterall, i'm not surprised!

 

[kyleb]

Kyleb, we all know that taking pictures directly of the TV is not really the best way to judge...

Yeah, but it is the best I can do unless everyone is up for dropping by to check it out in person.

But seriously, my point is that it does look notably better when rendering at 1080p than when rendering at a lower resolution, even though the display itself is only 852x480. And this is related to the topic; specifically, Scooby's suggestion were suggesting that rendering HS at 1080p would be wasted on people not having such high resolution display anyway. The fact is the higher rendering resolution does help even when being displayed at a lower one.

 

[London Geezer]

Yeah, but it is the best I can do unless everyone is up for dropping by to check it out in person.

But seriously, my point is that it does look notably better when rendering at 1080p than when rendering at a lower resolution, even though the display itself is only 852x480. And this is related to the topic; specifically, Scooby's suggestion were suggesting that rendering HS at 1080p would be wasted on people not having such high resolution display anyway. The fact is the higher rendering resolution does help even when being displayed at a lower one.

See, that's on topic. Now. :smile: And i totally agree with you.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I don't get what you are trying to say here. Are you thinking that fine detail in the background like the tips of the branches and stuff wouldn't come though as well if there was more of it?

No, I'm saying it has much to do with the displays scalers' quality as to how well it downscales the higher resolution picture, and how blurry it makes the "high resolution" textures that are not too much skewed and f*cked up because they are being put into a PC game, and how well it would handle motion and how much would it introduce artifacts if fed a different kind of signal that's a bit more demanding.

But seriously, my point is that it does look notably better when rendering at 1080p than when rendering at a lower resolution, even though the display itself is only 852x480. And this is related to the topic; specifically, Scooby's suggestion were suggesting that rendering HS at 1080p would be wasted on people not having such high resolution display anyway. The fact is the higher rendering resolution does help even when being displayed at a lower one.

Oh Why didn't you say this in the first place