MS has no intention of making money off Xbox Next...

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Megadrive1988 said:
I forcast one of three main possibilities

1.) PS3 decimates Xbox 2 and GCNext, actually INCREASING Sony's console marketshare to 80~90% from its current ~70%

2.) Xbox 2 does significantly better than Xbox, reducing Sony's marketshare by 10-20% from it's present ~70% to 50~60%. Nintendo does about the same with GCNext as its done with GCN.



3.) my real hope though, is, that both Nintendo and Microsoft do better by at least 10% each. giving them ~25% of the console market each. with Sony obviously clinging onto half the market.

Microsoft will be stronger competitor with the Xbox Next. They have been building their 1st parties up (RARE should be going full steam), they'll have a much improved ecomonic model for the hardware platform, LIVE will be available from day one, and Peter Moore, a verteran of the console biz, is in upper management helping out.
 
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Microsoft is a publically traded company, I am SURE its stock owners will not put up with their money squandered indefinitely just to MAYBE see a competitor hurt financially.
MS shareholders didn't complain when MS declared Netscape and Palm as their enemy and spent billions to practice anti-competitive activities. Same goes for Linux as well, although not successful because Linux is a free software.

Spending billions to eliminate a future competitor now is considered a good business practice at MS.
 
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Maybe that story about J Allard planning to release a money-losing $100 Xpod to hurt both iPod and PSX3 wasn't a BS afterall.

MS loses money on Xbox Next.
MS loses money on Xpod.

MS can happily lose billions as long as SCEI loses marketshare and never fully recoups its billions invested in CELL...
 
Guden Oden said:
Microsoft is a publically traded company, I am SURE its stock owners will not put up with their money squandered indefinitely just to MAYBE see a competitor hurt financially.

Businesses are in the business of making profit, not the opposite. MS has to answer to its owners like everybody else.

This thread is just dumb... Stop the hate, stop deadmeat.

Sorry guden oden. but i have to say loosing money to possible take a huge market that can bring in much more money than went out over the long run .

Investers have seen this work many times before. Is it dumb of them to think it will work again ?

I don't think so


Imagine how much money the movie industry makes a year. Now imagine if one studio could have 90% of that market to themselves .

Now picture a much bigger industry that is still growing at a huge rate .

Woulnd't you think thats worth a few billion in losses to take controll of
 
MS will never run Sony out of the console business until they start exclusively providing more better quality games. The hardware is really a very small part of it.
 
AlphaWolf said:
MS will never run Sony out of the console business until they start exclusively providing more better quality games. The hardware is really a very small part of it.

This is why I'm more excited about N5 than X-Box 2. I expect both will do better than their respective predecessors, but Sony won't give up even 1% of its marketshare without a fight. I might have to buy more than one console next generation *sigh*
 
AlphaWolf said:
MS will never run Sony out of the console business until they start exclusively providing more better quality games. The hardware is really a very small part of it.

Of course how many sony games are high quality ?

Most of the exclusive high quality tittles on sony systems are third party

So really ms just has to take sonys exclusive third party games over and that can be done with large amounts of cash.
 
jvd said:
AlphaWolf said:
MS will never run Sony out of the console business until they start exclusively providing more better quality games. The hardware is really a very small part of it.

Of course how many sony games are high quality ?

Most of the exclusive high quality tittles on sony systems are third party

So really ms just has to take sonys exclusive third party games over and that can be done with large amounts of cash.

That's likely more money that even MS is willing to spend. Convincing developers to not develop for 70%+ of the market is likely not an easy sell.
 
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In some way, Xbox already fulfilled its mission by making SCEI unprofitable and heavily dependent on loans. SCEI's present unprofitability is the reason SCEI executives are talking about the need to make profit off the hardware, 48,000 Yen PSP and 700 Euro PSX3. Xbox Next will only make problems worse for SCEI and will actually make it go red. SCEI doesn't recoup its CELL investment and the game's over, MS wins.

It's not really hard to tank a company on a shaky financial ground, SCEI did it to Sega. Now, it's SCEI's turn to taste its own medicine...
 
Bill Gate's Kill List
IBM killed OS/2, not MS. I have no doubt that if there was no Windows IBM would have still managed to kill OS/2 somehow.
After all that's their special talent - kill any chance a product has in the consumer market.
In relation to which, Lotus was dead in consumer market the moment IBM acquired them :p

Now that I think of it, Windows would probably have died a long time ago and we'd all be stuck using MacOS or something if MS didn't run away from IBM in time.

Speaking of which, there's no official confirmation Nintendo is using IBM cpus this time right? That may be their lucky break, MS and Sony are both dead in the water before they even start by their choice of partner :LOL:
 
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While not directly related to Xbox Next, it does concern PSX3.

kaigai062.jpg

Toshiba's XDR schedule

kaigai063.jpg

Elpida's XDR schedule

You notice that both Toshiba and Elpida's XDR production enters full swing at second quarter 2005. Since the PSX3 is the sole consumer of XDR for a foreseeable future(The PC industry won't touch Rambus, some even banned their engineers from considering Rambus), it is safe to assume that PSX3 enters production by the summer of 2005.

Furthermore, the maximum XDR capacity available at the time of PSX3 production start is 512 Mb @ 3.2 Ghz. This means PSX3 will have 256 MB @ 25.6 GB/s bandwidth presuming a quad-channel configuration. 256 MB and 25.6 GB/s is not enough to drive 4 PEs, it is barely sufficient for single PE. PSX3 with single PE will likely have 4 FLOPS/byte, even worse than 2 FLOPS/Byte of PSX2.

So there you have it, the PSX3

- Launching Winter 2005
- System Memory : 256 MB @ 25.6 GB/s
- Graphics Memory : 32 MB @ 666 Gb/s
- CPU FLOPS : sub 128 GFLOPS @ 2 Ghz
- GPU FLOPS : ~24 GFLOPS @ 666 Mhz
- Raw Fill Rate : 40 Gtexels/s - 10 Gpixels/s
 
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Ignore the e-DRAM on BE Typical.
Emotion Engine 3 won't have eDRAM because its inclusion kills clockspeed. James Kahle's CELL layout description in the patent application didn't mention any eDRAM.
 
Deadmeat said:
- GPU FLOPS : ~24 GFLOPS @ 666 Mhz
- Raw Fill Rate : 40 Gtexels/s - 10 Gpixels/s
I don't get it. What the heck are you using those Flops for? Can't be the pixel pipeline (you'd need to at least double that to make any sense) and you claim the cpu is EE3 so clearly you're not planning to do T&L on the graphic chip.
 
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so clearly you're not planning to do T&L on the graphic chip.
I got that number from that SCEI's GS3 description in that "parallel rendering" patent application. 4 T&L units + 8 banks of 4 MB memory(32 MB in total). Clockspeed was not given but I estimated 666 Mhz...

Beside, I have a reason to suspect that Graphics Synthesizer 3 really is a GS in tradition; the first one was formed by welding 8 PSX GPUs together, this new one will be formed by welding 4 PSP GPUs together.
 
Re: ...

Deadmeat said:
In some way, Xbox already fulfilled its mission by making SCEI unprofitable and heavily dependent on loans. SCEI's present unprofitability is the reason SCEI executives are talking about the need to make profit off the hardware, 48,000 Yen PSP and 700 Euro PSX3. Xbox Next will only make problems worse for SCEI and will actually make it go red. SCEI doesn't recoup its CELL investment and the game's over, MS wins.

It's not really hard to tank a company on a shaky financial ground, SCEI did it to Sega. Now, it's SCEI's turn to taste its own medicine...

Oh.My.God.

I´ve seen plenty of hate from a person towards any given company. Fanboys regularly come up with dumb excuses to hate their competitors or whatever(like jvd, for example), but I´ve never, EVER, seen a person so filled with hate at a company that creates this alternative reality in their heads and fills them with wishes totally unrelated to the real world.

I mean, it´s appaling how he has already created these facts in his head that come from nowhere. It´s kind of scary actually, he is the kind of guy that would just take a gun and start shooting at people because his world doesn´t match with reality.

This goes beyond deep bias. Deadmeat, you need to get some psichological help, what you´re doing is not good for your mental health.
 
DM said:
Clockspeed was not given but I estimated 666 Mhz...
Based on what? Moreover, according to your spec and numbers, pixel pipelines will run on 2.5GHZ? :oops:

So again, I must ask, how do you arrive to this many varied clock frequency estimates. I mean, you are designing a chip here that has different parts running at widely different speeds, surely you must have some good reasoning for it.
 
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