Jack_Tripper
Newcomer
HAHHAHAHA - ya, pretty tough talk from a studio-head whose last biggest hit was on the Super Nintend
Jack
"Sony has no chance of making money on the PS3" - Acclaim Boss
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HAHHAHAHA - ya, pretty tough talk from a studio-head whose last biggest hit was on the Super Nintend
Jack
I wonder though, the PS2 benefited in terms of using engineering process technologies that were more advanced than the EE/GS were compared to CellBE/RSX and also EE/GS was Sony IP unlike the contract STI/Nvidia so its a no brainer that the PS3 is moar expensive given the technology it is using aside from Blu Ray drives...
Since CellBE hit 65nm last year and has become a more affordable, cooler running and most likely higher yielding chip.
Meanwhile RSX has yet to be confirmed to be shrunk and fabbed at 65nm at Sony fabs this year. But once it is confirmed it must eventually become a more affordable, cooler running and much more likely of having higher yields in production as a result of the die shrink and... wait a minute I just remembered that Sony stated at their heavily critisized E3 08 presentation that Sony was going to expand into selling PS3s in South America, a traditionally warmer climate region so that must mean 65nm RSX is very close.
Anyways Dave Perry/Acclaim repeating the same things we were discussing in this forum (and others) last year and making it seem like new "breaking news" is rather interesting as to what this "news" is supposed to do, inform, hurt or help Sony PS3.
I'm sure no one expects Sony to sell even more PS3s this holiday season, but if they do won't Sony be close to making some kind of progress at least?
I don't think it's supposed to inform, hurt, or help Sony... it's just his own musings and reflections. Not sure about your angle wrt to Sony making "progress" and the discussion on 65nm/EE+GS/Cell&RSX; the simple matter here is that the PS3 has cost Sony more billions than they can ever hope to recoup on PS3 related hardware/software sales alone. Now that's not saying it was the right choice or the wrong choice, because there are a lot of external to gaming considerations at play, but just stating as a truism. If we're talking about an improving situation for PS3, obviously... it will continue to generate improving margins. But those profits will likely never be enough to have covered the preceding costs.
I want to note though that the article itself is a source of ire with me, as it seems ignorant of the discussions and readily available information out there on the matter. And obviously, they thought Perry's comments were some form of revelation.
upnorthsox
Veteran
That's all in your opinion of course.
Cell and BR R&D costs may also be amortorized over two console generations as far as cost recoveries go so short view truisms may not be in play in a long view strategy.
As to cost cutting, Sony in 2 yrs has gone from a $2 bil deficit to a $1 bil deficit to an expected breakeven, all of that in most part without the benefit of their biggest potential unit cost savings in Cell and RSX shrinks.
Another thing worth mentioning is the $1.25 bil in publishing losses that was brought up in this graph: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1203297&postcount=25 While I know everyone was all misty eyed over the Nintendo #'s, what the graph also shows (if the numbers are accurate at all) is that not only does Sony SW account for a big part in their current losses but it represents a huge investment in future game sales potential or put simply, there's about a billion $$$ worth of gaming development by Sony we haven't heard from yet.
I don't know what the real truth is here but do know that even a $3 bil loss over the first 10 million units can be pretty much erased by only a $30 per unit avg profit over the next 90 mil. Is that so unrealistic? History shows to not bet against Sony on this.
Upnorthsox, beyond the irony of a thread repeating discussions we've already had before, here we are actually going through the exact same motions.
This whole "Cell and RSX amortization" thing is a red herring; they could amortize it over a fifty year span for all I care and it wouldn't change that the PS3 on its own terms faces a Herculean challenge to becoming profitable. What do you think these costs were, anyway? As for BD, those R&D costs belong to a different division entirely. What SCE paid for is component sourcing, and that's certainly an expense that internally they cannot defray or recoup.
Here is the thread where this was all discussed recently: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=48677
You can start at post #18 and take it from there I guess.
Note that up through 2006 Sony had made $5.5 billion net on PS2 and PS1 combined; those are the profits for the entire division since its inception. In the last two years, they have eaten away at ~$3 billion of that, and I would assert that without PS2 and PSP to buffer things, it's probably around another billion in losses attributable to PS3. So how the PS3 makes up over $3 billion in the coming years when viewed in isolation of the other platforms... it will be an enormous challenge.
As for this:
Are you out of your mind? That's just showing the total losses for SCE in the last fiscal year - to even think you could attribute that wholly to actual game development and come with a rosy picture of the situation... that would indicate a true disaster, let me say.
Why don't the mods make a console loss/profit thread that is not PS3 specific? Do we really need some Acclaim guy as cover for another Sony is doomed thread?
Surely MS has billions to make up in their Xbox devision, is this not just interesting?
And a little less interesting, how will Nintendo spend all their profit for the next gen?
Surely MS has billions to make up in their Xbox devision, is this not just interesting?
And a little less interesting, how will Nintendo spend all their profit for the next gen?
He's right though. Howard Stringer has always viewed Sony in its entirety. He encouraged divisions to work together so that overall Sony wins in his book (even though it may cause temporary losses in part of the company). I believe one article mentioned that Stringer called the movie division personally to get them to bundle Spiderman 3 in PS3.
If you look at his past records, it says something similar:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/the-interview-howard-stringer-530696.html
If you look at his past records, it says something similar:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/the-interview-howard-stringer-530696.html
Ok, then why does this exist, no one is talking about Acclaim in the least.
Don't ask me. Maybe this should be merged into that thread?
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