Motorstorm, F1, GTHD - AA and HDR

[deepbrown]

The screenshots are not touched up, and shadow aliasing is only really bad at certain angles and most noticable in motion. The game has the same 2xMSAA both in the car selection screen and in-game.
Vehicle selection:


In-Game:


As usual sorry for the poor capture method, you'd think by now I would have bought a better camera... But it gets the job done.

Good to see you here Mmmkay

 

[Neb]

The screenshots are not touched up, and shadow aliasing is only really bad at certain angles and most noticable in motion. The game has the same 2xMSAA both in the car selection screen and in-game.
Vehicle selection:


In-Game:


As usual sorry for the poor capture method, you'd think by now I would have bought a better camera... But it gets the job done.

I have played Motorstorm on a Sony Bravia LCD screen with HDMI connection and it was clearly no use of AA in the game. I know the difference between 0/2/4xAA, it's easy for me to change it on PC games to see the difference.
By the way youre screenshots are to blurry. If menu and ingame is same then show some ingame shots where the car is parked (on the track).

Shadows are blocky all the time (some angles may give "bonus" like with the BF2 shadows), check the self-shadowing (blurred "stair-step" shadows). Other small things, bilinear filtering, 8Bit HDr (sky banding), 2D/low poly mesh backdrops. Fun game though.

 

[Duke]

What kinda lighting and AA does Gears use btw?

 

[Neb]

What kinda lighting and AA does Gears use btw?

I may be wrong but I think it is using deffered lightning together with a shader that applies aa to some objects depending on movement and distance. The bloom like lightning also helps hidding jaggies.

 

[Mmmkay]

I have played Motorstorm on a Sony Bravia LCD screen with HDMI connection and it was clearly no use of AA in the game. I know the difference between 0/2/4xAA, it's easy for me to change it on PC games to see the difference.
By the way youre screenshots are to blurry. If menu and ingame is same then show some ingame shots where the car is parked (on the track).

Shadows are blocky all the time (some angles may give "bonus" like with the BF2 shadows), check the self-shadowing (blurred "stair-step" shadows). Other small things, bilinear filtering, 8Bit HDr (sky banding), 2D/low poly mesh backdrops. Fun game though.

I'm playing it via DVI on a 720p native TV, what's the problem here? I took the screens closely so that you could identify each individual pixel. The second screen in particular here:

Is a perfect example of in game IQ. That some of the images are somewhat blurry is irrelevant because the intention was to show the individual pixels of the display and how they map to the game. What you may be observing is a product of bloom passes on the shiny/metallic car parts which won't get any MSAA.

The last two images I took were of a race paused and the camera rotated to provide a clean edge that would show MSAA. In the default angles you're right it's not obvious that 2xMSAA is in effect, but that's because of the light blooms and specular highlights. The shadows are not blocky all the time, they are soft but quite low resolution shadowmaps. At certain angles they do not look terrible and should not be a cause to dismiss those framebuffer images.

 

[Neb]

I'm playing it via DVI on a 720p native TV, what's the problem here? I took the screens closely so that you could identify each individual pixel. The second screen in particular here:

Is a perfect example of in game IQ. That some of the images are somewhat blurry is irrelevant because the intention was to show the individual pixels of the display and how they map to the game. What you may be observing is a product of bloom passes on the shiny/metallic car parts which won't get any MSAA.

You have to take ss where you can see the size of the object (car + sorroundings) so that one can see the object size vs the jaggies size. I'll put some ss up.

 

[Mmmkay]

That's why I took a picture of the truck with its menu overlay and then a close up of the bonnet and its tyre.

If you want me to do it in-game I'll do it in-game... It's just much more of a hassle because the camera doesn't stay still for more than 1 second.

 

[Neb]

If you want me to do it in-game I'll do it in-game... It's just much more of a hassle because the camera doesn't stay still for more than 1 second.

Park the car and the game camera will "stay put"!

This screenshot represents what I observed while playing Motorstorm final, EU release (mostly the ss is still blurry).
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_3992100.html

 

[Todd33]

Park the car and the game camera will "stay put"!

This screenshot represents what I observed while playing Motorstorm final, EU release (mostly the ss is still blurry).
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_3992100.html

That's from October 2006, do you think it represents the shipped game? Many people think the demo doesn't even match the release game.

This one is newer:

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/img_4355472.html

 

[Neb]

That's from October 2006, do you think it represents the shipped game? Many people think the demo doesn't even match the release game.

The aliasing is the same and ingame when you drive slowly even more so. If you re-read my post again you will see that I said 'this represents what I saw' and with that meaning the jaggies.

 

[Mmmkay]

Scene (a)


Close ups:
(a) Roof reflecting light - aliasing


(a) Spare tyre - MSAA


(a) Rear - MSAA


Different angle showing MSAA on front bull bar


I won't be doing any more examples, as this is ridiculously time consuming with the poor equipment I have in hand. And if you're just going to present old build screenshots while passing off more current media as bullshots, then I have no more time for this charade.

 

[Neb]

Close ups:
(a) Roof reflecting light - aliasing


(a) Spare tyre - MSAA


(a) Rear - MSAA


Different angle showing MSAA on front bull bar


I won't be doing any more examples, as this is ridiculously time consuming with the poor equipment I have in hand. And if you're just going to present old build screenshots while passing off more current media as bullshots, then I have no more time for this charade.

Well done, shows what I have been saying so far, lack of AA. And no it's not shader aliasing!

By the way the old ss was only to show the aliasing as the others have blur/bloomish light to cover up and blur out jaggies!

Same ss as above.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/motor1.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/motor2.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/motor3.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/motor4.jpg

 

[TheChosenOne]

I believe Mmmkay is right.

I have the game and play it through a HDMI connection as well on my 1080p Samsung HD LCD TV, and it does look to have some form of anti-aliasing to me.

 

[Neb]

I believe Mmmkay is right.

I have the game and play it through a HDMI connection as well on my 1080p Samsung HD LCD TV, and it does look to have some form of anti-aliasing to me.

Well unless the EU version is downgraded, but the motion-blur and bloomish (glowing edges)lightning does cover up the jaggies to a certain point.

 

[Mmmkay]

Well done, shows what I have been saying so far, lack of AA. And no it's not shader aliasing!

Well except all those parts of the truck which did have MSAA... nice to see we've skipped foreplay and gone straight to confirmation bias though. Overbright/bloomed HDR surfaces not receiving any MSAA, this isn't all hauntingly familiar? We may not know the exact specifics of Evolution Studio's HDR+MSAA implementation, but it's not implausible to see them having problems with surfaces using FP buffers.

P.s. My copy of MotorStorm is European

 

[deepbrown]

Well except all those parts of the truck which did have MSAA... nice to see we've skipped foreplay and gone straight to confirmation bias though. Overbright/bloomed HDR surfaces not receiving any MSAA, this isn't all hauntingly familiar? We may not know the exact specifics of Evolution Studio's HDR+MSAA implementation, but it's not implausible to see them having problems with surfaces using FP buffers.

P.s. My copy of MotorStorm is European

Hm we need more people. I call you all...help us out will you. And with other games as well...(f1, GTHD) Genji?

 

[Jesus2006]

Well unless the EU version is downgraded, but the motion-blur and bloomish (glowing edges)lightning does cover up the jaggies to a certain point.

Motorstorm has some of the best (HDR) lighting out there imo. Much better as a PGR3 for example (precision wise) as it is not so articificial oversaturated that you cannot see anything on screen anymore when coming out of a tunnel etc(which imo also is a problem among many 360 games using the built in low-precision FP10 HDR).
But i think i remember hearing some dev comments that they sacrificed AA for motion blur (both cannot be applied at the same time).

 

[Obakan]

I believe Nebula is right, I have played it in a store with a HD TV native resolution and the game doesnt look to have AA, the Hdr was pretty ok (i would preffer bloom infront of the Hdr in Motorstorm) and the crashes made me laugh (or cry?)
Maybe it has 2xAA, I cant play a game without 4Xaa (No AA!!!=no next gen game to me) thats maybe why im overreacting(?).

 

[dskneo]

it appears to be track dependent... some tracks its really obvious/annoying, others its really good.
My copy is European.

anyway, the game was made to look good in movement.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

(which imo also is a problem among many 360 games using the built in low-precision FP10 HDR).

So you think that these PS3 games use FP16 HDR? I think the biggest problem is that some developers think that "next-gen graphics" are about making things super shiny and using HDR to make stuff super bright.