This is worrying if you ask me and it goes back to my initial concern
More DRM Discussions *spinoff*
- Thread starter Nesh
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RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Pretty sure that was essentially the plot of the 2nd season of Wayward Pines and how they maintained their cryostatis and guess what? After doing that for a couple of thousand years, they broke!
... or just put them on a shelf, and the discover 20 years later that the whole disc rot issue was a stupid argument. The only known massive disc rot issue was HDDVD and it was caused by hddvd's shitty production. I have hundreds and hundreds of films and never had a bad disc. If there are some badly pressed titles with a bad seal, it's certainly not widespread on either DVD or bluray.
Even so, disc rot or scratches is a false equivalence. Just buy a used copy if your dog ate your disc or something. Get another console on ebay if your console broke.
However when a company stops supporting the DRM infrastructure, the games are no longer playable. For everyone. Worldwide. All the titles are gone.
Used games are gone with DRM. Ownership and control is gone. Some gamers care about this, others don't. Hence why we have both digital and non-drm physical. Everyone here have explained why they either prefer non-DRM media, or they prefer the added convenience of digital. Nobody will change their mind, it's preferences and compromises. Not sure why this is still being discussed.
Even so, disc rot or scratches is a false equivalence. Just buy a used copy if your dog ate your disc or something. Get another console on ebay if your console broke.
However when a company stops supporting the DRM infrastructure, the games are no longer playable. For everyone. Worldwide. All the titles are gone.
Used games are gone with DRM. Ownership and control is gone. Some gamers care about this, others don't. Hence why we have both digital and non-drm physical. Everyone here have explained why they either prefer non-DRM media, or they prefer the added convenience of digital. Nobody will change their mind, it's preferences and compromises. Not sure why this is still being discussed.
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It's still being discussed because people still have things to say.
As for whether there's value in the things being said:
- Situations change over time.
- Some people *do* change their minds.
- New people join the forum and people who didn't care to weigh in before may now want to present their view.
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and could u not do the same with a hardrive ? Or solid state nand ?
Without the key to decrypt the content, your data is useless no matter how many backups you have.
Course you can. You could put your console and HDD into storage. I thought we were talking about availability of download items. If you want to play a current gen game in a hundred years assuming an emulator is available, you can put a disk or suitable copy away and bring it out and play it in 2117. What you won't be able to do is go online to the original digital storefront and download it again. Even though you pay the same potentially, one has an intrinsically shorter life expectancy that operates outside the realms of normal commerce.
The whole thing is quite unique which is why legislation and the like is all a bit wishy-washy and inappropriate. From the consumer POV there are a few problems with the way things currently operate, one being the possibility of you losing access to your content, and the other being the fact your content (or device firmware) can be changed without your consent into something else you didn't explicitly purchase. If games were provided as a service this wouldn't be a problem, but when sold as products the same as physical goods, long-used physical laws don't quite match digital nature.
Do you mean people bought an xbox 360 game that one day stopped working ?
If so was there any backlash there should of been
Are you thinking of the free game Microsoft issued to X360 dashboard beta-testers known as Halo:Reach, that was then replaced with a free digital games on demand version at the end of the beta test after the new security measures were finalized?
Because thats the only version I know of with a replaced license.
I found my disc that hit the situation, the Halo: Reach security test. As I said earlier, it was given free to X360 Dashboard Beta-testers at the beginning of the test. The security measures were revised during the beta-test cycle. Microsoft gave everyone a free version of the digital Games-On-Demand when they revoked the physical disc.
Here's a pic I just took of it:
The problem with the discussion is that there is a group of people who support that the physical should be phased out, and label the arguments of those who support physical as "backward thinking". It is not. The future is here right now and it supports both physical and digital
The side that still supports physical arent necessarily opposing the existence of digital nor are they trying to tell those who prefer digital that they should adopt physical. They are opposing the elimination of physical products and the domination of DRM digital products. Co-existence of both does not remove the benefits of digital for those that prefer it. But the domination of Digital and DRM does remove a lot of the benefits of owning a physical non-DRM controlled software and it does remove potential flexibility, options and rights of every consumer regardless who eventually would have exercised them.
The fact that digital may one day fully dominate is not an indication of its unquestionable advantage for the consumer at large either. It is an assumption. The providers are conditioning the market gradually until full adoption because it is obvious that it has the highest monetary gains. They avoid lots of additional costs, they can increase the profit margin and they can eliminate the used game market. This is primarily why DRM-controlled products will dominate. The consumer's freedom to do whatever he wants with the product after purchase is not associated with any return and it is not of the providers' concern which is quite normal but not necessarily mutual.
Actually it's even less impressive that that, it was a king Kong demo but it was signed to play off dvdr so you could simply copy and play the disk in retail consoles. This was fine for ages until people started playing with the Shafer code and exploiting a hypervisor issue that was quickly patched. The fall out had the demo revoked so it was unplayable, obviously hackers could just hack thier DVD drive and tinker with the retail release so it achieved nothing really as the hypervisor exploit was fixed and using that disk was never a serious attack vector. It became the JTAG hack I believe.
You example is far better, the process not only exists to revoke access to a physical disk but it was excercised and it seems more than once.
D
Deleted member 11852
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The risk of a bankrupt company revoking a disc licence is about zero.
Not a bankrupt company but an expired license for the music.
Rockstar didnt just switch to selling a version with the songs removed but also deleted them from peoples hard drives.
http://www.pcgamer.com/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-steam-update-removes-songs-resolution-options/
That wasn't the situation in the console world. Hard to imagine having better rights protection on consoles, but that seems the case.
Ever since consoles have become connected and update-able devices the platform holders have had the ability to deny you access to your physical media, too.
Well add another problem into the equation then.
Would you say the benefits of having connected, update-able consoles has been worth the trade-off of allowing the technical possibility that the platform holders can choose to ban any of your discs from being played?
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My utility from having rights as a consumer to do whatever I want with a product and the utility I get from benefits from update-able connected consoles are unrelated and thus are "untradeable". It is obvious that I CAN have full access to my disks AND have a connected, updateable console without one affecting the other NOW. Any change departs from the current optimum point.
This is why when MS DID try to impose similar controls on physical media, it caused an uproar (since it removed from the consumer) and it was retracted (at no cost for the consumer). If and when a company does exercise this ability of course I ll not accept it. Any argument using "technological progress" as an excuse for such an exercise is simply irrational as we can have a cake and eat it too. Funnily such arguments did exist when MS announced their initial plans.
As long as things stay as they are I am happy
The question is flawed.
My utility from having rights as a consumer to do whatever I want with a product and the utility I get from benefits from update-able connected consoles are unrelated and thus are "untradeable". It is obvious that I CAN have full access to my disks AND have a connected, updateable console without one affecting the other NOW. Any change departs from the current optimum point.
This is why when MS DID try to impose similar controls on physical media, it caused an uproar (since it removed from the consumer) and it was retracted (at no cost for the consumer). If and when a company does exercise this ability of course I ll not accept it. Any argument using "technological progress" as an excuse for such an exercise is simply irrational as we can have a cake and eat it too. Funnily such arguments did exist when MS announced their initial plans.
As long as things stay as they are I am happy