Joe DeFuria
Legend
mobile Radeon 9700 available now
- Thread starter mboeller
- Start date
The next notebook part from ATI is not R300 based.
When Chris Hook first told me the name I told him that I disagreed with it citing the exact arguments that we now see occurring. However, I can see their point to some extent.
Mobility Radeon, as far as they are concerned, is a separate brand to the desktop Radeon and as such don’t necessarily follow the same naming patterns. With only 2 or so discrete mobility parts (and with this likely to be the last R300 based) released per year its not as though the brand is as crowded in the mobile segment as it is in the desktop – with the desktop the “XT†brand has to be used because there have been so many parts there really wasn’t many other places to go, but that’s not the case with the mobile parts and it may actually represent more confusion having “9600 / PRO / XT†in this market space. The 9700 name clearly marks it as the highest performance mobility part available.
Inevitably these decisions are also made in conjunction with the partners who will be adopting it, and I’d wager that they all plumped for the 9700 brand.
Mobility Radeon, as far as they are concerned, is a separate brand to the desktop Radeon and as such don’t necessarily follow the same naming patterns. With only 2 or so discrete mobility parts (and with this likely to be the last R300 based) released per year its not as though the brand is as crowded in the mobile segment as it is in the desktop – with the desktop the “XT†brand has to be used because there have been so many parts there really wasn’t many other places to go, but that’s not the case with the mobile parts and it may actually represent more confusion having “9600 / PRO / XT†in this market space. The 9700 name clearly marks it as the highest performance mobility part available.
Inevitably these decisions are also made in conjunction with the partners who will be adopting it, and I’d wager that they all plumped for the 9700 brand.
THe_KELRaTH
Regular
That just sounds like pure waffle PR talk to me... "Think of all the possible combination of names and numbers available but no.. let's call it by a product that the industry and end users already recognise and know the specifications".
What does the 9700 offer over the 9600 in the desktop space?
Performance, of the same featureset. By pipelines, and a bandwidth advantage.
What does the 9700 offer over the 9600 in the mobility space?
Performance, of the same featureset. By clock speed
It is marketing to decide on a higher number instead of a suffix, but they are selling 1) the performance from the pipelines and 2) the featureset, and delivering them with distinction in both "spaces". Within the already established desktop->mobility performance downgrade (as dictated by the laptop maker), a high clocked lower pipelined core is a quite valid alternative to the lower clocked same pipelined core.
That's why incurable's point about the memory speed is, IMO, the most significant issue, because it is the factor that will most adversely affect the delivery of the above (turning on AA, other bandwidth concerns). But the discussion of the problem seems to be centered on the core, as if there is a feeling that a 200 MHz 8 pipe core would have been "more honest", even though there doesn't seem to be any secret as to the number of pipelines it has...
Performance, of the same featureset. By pipelines, and a bandwidth advantage.
What does the 9700 offer over the 9600 in the mobility space?
Performance, of the same featureset. By clock speed
It is marketing to decide on a higher number instead of a suffix, but they are selling 1) the performance from the pipelines and 2) the featureset, and delivering them with distinction in both "spaces". Within the already established desktop->mobility performance downgrade (as dictated by the laptop maker), a high clocked lower pipelined core is a quite valid alternative to the lower clocked same pipelined core.
That's why incurable's point about the memory speed is, IMO, the most significant issue, because it is the factor that will most adversely affect the delivery of the above (turning on AA, other bandwidth concerns). But the discussion of the problem seems to be centered on the core, as if there is a feeling that a 200 MHz 8 pipe core would have been "more honest", even though there doesn't seem to be any secret as to the number of pipelines it has...
Joe DeFuria
Legend
I think, consumer wise, the best they could have done is name it the Mobility Radeon 9650. I think Mobility 9600 XT series would just be too confusing.
The 9650 would separate it from the "9600s, Pros, and Pro Turbos", while not "infringing" on the 9700 name.
However, I'm sure the IHVs pushed back heavily. As a consumer, I'm a little bit disappointed in the 9700 name...as a stock holder, I'm happy.
It's faster than the 9600 with the same DX9 support, so in in the end, it's certainly livable, even from a consumer perspective.
Wow...that's a little surprising to me. I was expecting the next notebook part to be an 8 pipeline R300 variant (think R300 on 0.13, low K or 0.11), and that's what I was anticipating. Guess not.
The 9650 would separate it from the "9600s, Pros, and Pro Turbos", while not "infringing" on the 9700 name.
However, I'm sure the IHVs pushed back heavily. As a consumer, I'm a little bit disappointed in the 9700 name...as a stock holder, I'm happy.
It's faster than the 9600 with the same DX9 support, so in in the end, it's certainly livable, even from a consumer perspective.Dave Baumann said:
Wow...that's a little surprising to me. I was expecting the next notebook part to be an 8 pipeline R300 variant (think R300 on 0.13, low K or 0.11), and that's what I was anticipating. Guess not.
Ok, I'm going to slip a bit here.
[rant]
Are you people insane? Excusing naming a different product the same as a higher performing one with the justification that one is desktop and the other is mobile?
Your equivocating is mind boggling. You could simply downplay the gaff and say "yeah, it is stupid, but its only a marketting name and its not really important", but no...you actively defend it as a logical choice.
It isn't. Not in any shape or form.
Not that you'll do it, but in 6 months, look back and read what you've just written, after you've let go of your emotional context and you'll be thinking 'who the hell wrote that and what was he smoking'
[/rant]
Sorry. Really, I am. It won't happen again.
[rant]
Are you people insane? Excusing naming a different product the same as a higher performing one with the justification that one is desktop and the other is mobile?
Your equivocating is mind boggling. You could simply downplay the gaff and say "yeah, it is stupid, but its only a marketting name and its not really important", but no...you actively defend it as a logical choice.
It isn't. Not in any shape or form.
Not that you'll do it, but in 6 months, look back and read what you've just written, after you've let go of your emotional context and you'll be thinking 'who the hell wrote that and what was he smoking'
[/rant]
Sorry. Really, I am. It won't happen again.
tkopp said:
One of the trends that I've seen in some companies that sell laptops is the ability to swap the video module yourself. Alienware for instance builds their laptop video solutions in a module that you can remove in the future and upgrade. And I've heard of the same solution coming for CPUs as well either this year or early next. If that becomes a reality, I'd probably splunk some change down for a Laptop. The inability to change the CPU and the Videocard have been up to this point the main reason I've not purchased a laptop, but it seems like this is gradually changing.
I'm with those saying it's a cheeseball marketing maneuver and a pretty despicable one at that.demalion said:
BAD ATi! BAD!!!
Doomtrooper
Veteran
RussSchultz said:
I agree (gotta be a 1st)
Joe DeFuria said:
That might not have been a bad idea, although obviously not that great from a marketing point of view. "M10=>M11" doesn't really seem to translate to "9600=>9650" either.
I can't see how calling it "9700" is that confusing to Joe Public, relatively speaking (add me to the list of insane people, BTW). Rather that than release yet another 9600 variant - Mobility Radeon 9600, Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro, Mobility Radeon 9600 Turbo Pro, Mobility Radeon 9600 XT!
Are ATi not implementing OVERDRIVE for this part?
MuFu.
Do you not read the front page?
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