Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*

[Scott_Arm]

Also from the same Eurogamer interview. I don't know how any of this is confusing or contradictory:

In fact, somebody today will have an Xbox One, and when Scorpio comes out they will buy Scorpio and they will put Xbox One in a different room, and we're obviously going to make sure that as they move between rooms that they've got access to the same games.

The Scorpio games are obviously designed to take advantage of six teraflops and 4K. Your Xbox One, you were playing those today. You know what those look like and feel like. But there won't be Scorpio exclusive console games. Absolutely not.

But the specs you have released suggest the Scorpio is a monster, beyond what we understand of the PlayStation 4 Neo. Won't developers be so excited by the prospect, that they'll want to develop for the specs, and if so we're in a situation where they're thinking about, well, I have to actually make this work on Xbox One as well, and that's perhaps an issue for them?

Phil Spencer: Our biggest games out there ship on PC today, and the PC has this space of, right, you look at the big PC games that are coming out, they're going to support 4K, some of them will support 6K and crazy resolutions on PC and unlock framerates. What a developer's looking for is a real sweet spot of install base and users. We've got tens of millions of people who have Xbox Ones. Developers are gonna see that and, frankly, as the platform holder we're going to make sure games come out and support Xbox One.

Devs will use the power however they want. We all know that. They'll run higher resolution with better graphics on Scorpio, but they'll come out and run on Xbox One in a way you'd expect them to now. So devs will target Xbox One as the min, make sure it runs well, and scale up, just like everyone has been saying they're going to do.

The previous quote, the way I'd interpret it is that you won't get the most out of Scorpio with a 1080p tv, and the games will all be available on Xbox One, so his recommendation is that if you want Xbox One, you can buy it now. Sure, some dev might come along and target 720p on Xbox One and 1080p with higher settings on Scorpio. That could happen. We all know Xbox One doesn't render every game at 1080p anyways, and devs can do whatever they want.

Is Phil being incredibly dishonest? No. Do you have to read what he's saying without reading it hyper-literally? Yes. He's trying to dumb it down and make the layman understand the Xbox One is not done and will still be a viable product going forward. Reading an interview start to finish usually helps.

 

[Grall]

Maybe it's just absurdly clever? Keeps everyone talking about their products and what they hell they are and do for weeks on end!

The console equivalent of the good ole gish gallop...
(Edit: board removed my thumbsup emoji. Does the software not support unicode characters?)

 

[Dave Baumann]

Also from the same Eurogamer interview. I don't know how any of this is confusing or contradictory:

Not seen either of those interview before, but yeah they are saying exactly the same thing, and its as I said. User base is XBOX one, make sure all games are published on that, then treat Scorpio as you want - XBox One rendered at 4K or more quality at lower res.

 

[Scott_Arm]

If there's one thing I know about gamers, it's that they're super anal and they DEMAND precision at all times. Everything has to be literal, there's no room for casual statements. No one should ever have to think, even a little, about what's being said.

A standard 1080p TV.

Phil Spencer: Then you should buy this box [Xbox One S] , because Scorpio is not going to do anything for you. Scorpio is designed as a 4K console, and if you don't have a 4K TV, the benefit we've designed for, you're not going to see.

He said, "not going to do anything for you," so that has to mean, literally, that it's going to be exactly the same, even if I'm an informed gamer and I know that's unlikely to be 100% true. Can't interpret that as, "They won't be massively different to casuals" or "won't get the full benefit out of scorpio at 1080p" or anything like that. Inferring is bad. Never do it.

Also, context doesn't matter at all. Simplifying things for a non-technical audience is not allowed. The target audience of an interview doesn't matter. Doesn't use your own judgement when reading. Just read the statement and take it at face value. Reading comprehension is not a skill.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Also from the same Eurogamer interview. I don't know how any of this is confusing or contradictory:

Devs will use the power however they want. We all know that. They'll run higher resolution with better graphics on Scorpio, but they'll come out and run on Xbox One in a way you'd expect them to now. So devs will target Xbox One as the min, make sure it runs well, and scale up, just like everyone has been saying they're going to do.

Yet he said this to Eurogamer:

Phil Spencer: What TV do you have?

A standard 1080p TV.

Phil Spencer: Then you should buy this box, because Scorpio is not going to do anything for you. Scorpio is designed as a 4K console, and if you don't have a 4K TV, the benefit we've designed for, you're not going to see.​

Which I can only read as Scorpio is going to be the same games with the same effects but at 4K. Scorpio on a 1080p TV will be no better than Xbox One (or S). That's what he said!

This is 100% of Phil Spencer's problem. What he says isn't what he means. Probably. Nobody fucking knows.

 

[MrFox]

It there a TRC guaranteeing games must be on both consoles or not?

Can devs make scorpius exclusives or not?

Those are very straightforward questions, it's Yes or No. What we have is pages of spin and interpretation.

 

[Scott_Arm]

It there a TRC guaranteeing games must be on both consoles or not?

Can devs make scorpius exclusives or not?

Those are very straightforward questions, it's Yes or No. What we have is pages of spin and interpretation.

Why don't you read the interview you're so confused about. You might find the answer inside:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-15-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-the-big-interview

I saw Aaron Greenberg tweeted to say there will be no Scorpio exclusives. Is that right?

Phil Spencer: That's right.
...

So much spin. So confusing. What does he mean?

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/742514933322027008

 

[MrFox]

"When you're buying a console game from us"

Is it a TRC? Or just MS games?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Kind of catching up on the thread, so the statement about developers being able to use Scorpio's hardware how they like (recently linked by Videogamer) pre-dates Phil's interview with Eurogamer, where he implied Scorpio on a 1080p TV will be the same experience as Xbox One?

I'm getting a headache here. Is this bad messaging or a change of strategy to manage previous bad messaging? Or bad messaging regarding a change of strategy?

 

[Scott_Arm]

"When you're buying a console game from us"

Is it a TRC? Or just MS games?

You don't feel like you're reaching a bit, making this more complicated than it is? From the same answer to the same question:

The Scorpio games are obviously designed to take advantage of six teraflops and 4K. Your Xbox One, you were playing those today. You know what those look like and feel like. But there won't be Scorpio exclusive console games. Absolutely not.

Fuck, it. The full answer and even the answer to the follow up question:

I saw Aaron Greenberg tweeted to say there will be no Scorpio exclusives. Is that right?

Phil Spencer: That's right. When you're buying a console game from us, you know that console game will run on your original Xbox. No-one gets left behind. We said that on stage. Your Xbox One S and Scorpio. That's an important design point for us. They're all part of the same family. And we want to make sure just like when you're buying your music today, you don't worry about upgrading to a new phone that somehow won't play your old songs or your new songs. We think about your Xbox One collection of games that will move with you between those different consoles.

In fact, somebody today will have an Xbox One, and when Scorpio comes out they will buy Scorpio and they will put Xbox One in a different room, and we're obviously going to make sure that as they move between rooms that they've got access to the same games.

The Scorpio games are obviously designed to take advantage of six teraflops and 4K. Your Xbox One, you were playing those today. You know what those look like and feel like. But there won't be Scorpio exclusive console games. Absolutely not.

But the specs you have released suggest the Scorpio is a monster, beyond what we understand of the PlayStation 4 Neo. Won't developers be so excited by the prospect, that they'll want to develop for the specs, and if so we're in a situation where they're thinking about, well, I have to actually make this work on Xbox One as well, and that's perhaps an issue for them?

Phil Spencer: Our biggest games out there ship on PC today, and the PC has this space of, right, you look at the big PC games that are coming out, they're going to support 4K, some of them will support 6K and crazy resolutions on PC and unlock framerates. What a developer's looking for is a real sweet spot of install base and users. We've got tens of millions of people who have Xbox Ones. Developers are gonna see that and, frankly, as the platform holder we're going to make sure games come out and support Xbox One.

...

 

[Scott_Arm]

Kind of catching up on the thread, so the statement about developers being able to use Scorpio's hardware how they like (recently linked by Videogamer) pre-dates Phil's interview with Eurogamer, where he implied Scorpio on a 1080p TV will be the same experience as Xbox One?

I'm getting a headache here. Is this bad messaging or a change of strategy to manage previous bad messaging? Or bad messaging regarding a change of strategy?

Use your intelligence and you'll probably be able to figure out the answer.

 

[trainplane]

Seriously, I'd ignore a lot of the PR statements about Scorpio until it gets closer to release. It will be confusing and as others have said, it's because they are trying to not throw their current console under the bus. This whole thing about PR expectations and messaging should almost be its own thread.

Now if we uncover a leaked internal policy document to developers saying they are not allowed to make their 1080p version of the game look any better than XB1, then it will become a real issue.

In terms of what we'll really see, and this is only a prediction, I think many games in the beginning will go the easy route and provide a 4K version of their 900p game. But I also don't think Scorpio is the true successor to XB1 at first.

 

[turkey]

It there a TRC guaranteeing games must be on both consoles or not?

Can devs make scorpius exclusives or not?

Those are very straightforward questions, it's Yes or No. What we have is pages of spin and interpretation.

Will Xbox one / s get VR or is that the technicality they are dodging.

Also is it surprising they suggest you buy the console they have coming to market next, get folks invested in xbox with just as much chance to sell them a Scorpio also. Seems a logical answer regardless of the question really.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Use your intelligence and you'll probably be able to figure out the answer.

I'd read what Phil Spencer has been reported as saying. Either could be true but not both. They're mutually exclusive statements. You're suggestion of not taking things 'literally' is frankly bullshit, you either take what people say at face value or you don't.

• Devs can use 6Tf how they like implicitly means Scorpio will look better than Xbox One (and PS4 and Neo) at 1080p.
• Scorpio on 1080p will not look any different than Xbox One.

Come on Scott_Arm, you're coming over like a Microsoft apologist.

 

[Scott_Arm]

... you either take what people say at face value or you don't.

Really? That's kind of messed up.

Come on Scott_Arm, you're coming over like a Microsoft apologist.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Deleted member 11852]

... you either take what people say at face value or you don't.

Really? That's kind of messed up.

Huh? What other options are there? If somebody says something you either believe it or you don't.

 

[Michellstar]

"We are announcing now to give the choice to developers to take advantage of the power of this console"
"true 4k" yada yada

More or less it´s what he said on stage, what do people not understand??
Do they need a contract signed in blood or something?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

"
More or less it´s what he said on stage, what do people not understand??
Do they need a contract signed in blood or something?

Well he didn't say much on stage. But if you own 1080p TV then he's said that Scorpio won't look any better on it than an Xbox One while a few days earlier he said devs can use the power how they like, which suggests Scorpio should look better than One, PS4 and Neo on 1080p TVs.

How is not confusing?

 

[Michellstar]

Well he didn't say much on stage. But if you own 1080p TV then he's said that Scorpio won't look any better on it than an Xbox One while a few days earlier he said devs can use the power how they like, which suggests Scorpio should look better than One, PS4 and Neo on 1080p TVs.

How is not confusing?

To me it´s not, on stage was trying to sell the Scorpio, and in this interview the S

 

[Dave Baumann]

The answer concerning what TV you have is a generalistion - You have a 1080p TV then the likelihood is that its not worth you spending ~$200+ on the Scorpio solution because the majority of titles are not going to get benefits at that resolution. But does that mean every developer or title is going to behave that way? Probably not.