Microtransactions: the Future of Games? (LootBoxes and Gambling)

[CSI PC]

You genuinely believe a large contingent of gamers are refusing to buy games in sales, instead preferring to spend more because it's better for the devs? There's a tiddly fraction of enthusiasts who are targeted with collectibles releases. The rest weigh up how cheap they can get the game versus how long they can wait without it, like all consumers considering all products. Even crazy arse Apple fanbots will jump headlong at the chance to get an iPhone New for $100 off if Apple gave them the chance. Release the latest COD/SWBF/PUBG etc at both $50 and $60 with no difference other than $60 is the minimum needed to cover a fair wage while $50 is too low and the product will lose money...who's going to spend $60 out of the goodness of their heart?

There is virtually no-one going through life thinking, "what does it cost them to produce this and so what should I pay to be fair?", certainly not as a habit (some will stop to think that way for a Humble Bundle, though of course pay far under the initial asking price none-the-less). Which is why we have Black Friday. And there's virtually no-one going through life thinking, "what's a fair price for me to charge so I don't take too much money?" which is why we have large mark-ups and profits expected to increase YOY to pay the investors. Those same investors are one minute wanting more money from their investments, and the next wanting to pay less for their goods! To the point that you can't realistically operate idealistically even if you want to.

That has always been the case though, especially consoles in the past where a gamer would exchange their hard copy game at a game shop/others buy 2nd hand, in that situation there are no sales at all for the studio.
You are right though, it is more than likely most consumers will have a perceived value in buying a game that is much less than $60, but there is still a huge market with regards to pre-order and the much more expensive delux/gold versions.

There is a balance though, between consumer pushing the margins too low and some publishers-studios pushing the opposite direction to generate as much revenue as possible and set new precedents such as by EA/Activision/maybe one or two more.
Also part of that discussion is how much should a 1-year or 2-year old game cost to buy, the views again will be very divergent between consumers and the studios/devs, especially with some studios and the most budget-value focused gamer.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You are right though, it is more than likely most consumers will have a perceived value in buying a game that is much less than $60, but there is still a huge market with regards to pre-order and the much more expensive delux/gold versions.

That's a time/value thing, not a sycophantic thing. People aren't putting preorders to help finance the games but to have the exciting of getting it as soon as released.

There is a balance though, between consumer pushing the margins too low and some publishers-studios pushing the opposite direction to generate as much revenue as possible...

Yes, that's how the system achieves some sort of balance. Two opposing forces each trying to get everything and give nothing, who reach a stalemate on how far they can be moved. My observation is just that everyone is on both sides of that tug-of-war depending whether they're at work or at home.

Also part of that discussion is how much should a 1-year or 2-year old game cost to buy, the views again will be very divergent between consumers and the studios/devs, especially with some studios and the most budget-value focused gamer.

I wonder how prices drop in comparison to yesteryear? I feel like they drop faster and have heard a little saying as much, but don't know if that's true. Although that doesn't really change the discussion much. At worst it means there's less money coming in than some realise, but that still doesn't excuse lootboxing.

 

[Nesh]

Bungie admits it made "mistakes" locking off bits of Destiny 2 behind DLC
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-12-12-bungie-admits-it-made-mistakes-locking-off-in-game-content-behind-dlc

 

[CSI PC]

That's a time/value thing, not a sycophantic thing. People aren't putting preorders to help finance the games but to have the exciting of getting it as soon as released.

Yes, that's how the system achieves some sort of balance. Two opposing forces each trying to get everything and give nothing, who reach a stalemate on how far they can be moved. My observation is just that everyone is on both sides of that tug-of-war depending whether they're at work or at home.

But then EA is breaking that balance more than those that wait for a game to be cheaper than $60, one becomes integral to the game and is the precedent being set by EA/Activision/etc while the other as you mention is about patience and waiting over 6 months to 2 years before buying.
Stating people aren't putting preorders to help finance the games is not part of the context IMO; the discussion put forward is how expensive game development is and the point you made consumers are not paying $60 nor does $60 necessarily cover the cost of games.
Preorders has a huge account for sales in the 1st month, and then there is a lot of interest in the delux/gold versions at launch as well.

I agree dev costs have increased greatly over the years but so has how content/DLC been structured as well, just that now the trend/precedent that has a lot concerned including me is to make it integral to the game mechanics going forward and more like mobile gaming in terms of incurring revenue for games that consumer still need to pay $60 to $120 (some delux/gold versions) for.
It is pretty clear the trend is moving more quickly to the greatest revenue model possible by the largest and possibly most influential studios-publishers, the cost of this is not just behaviour mechanics to make consumers pay more in game but also the closure of studios that cannot meet the ever increase in highest revenue demand expected by giant publishers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But then EA is breaking that balance more than those that wait for a game to be cheaper than $60,...

I didn't say otherwise.

Stating people aren't putting preorders to help finance the games is not part of the context

It's not. It's a little branch of the discussion about economics and the forces that result in these practices, and the suggestion that gamers don't behave like other consumers and will pay over the odds out of loyalty. Sigfried1977 suggests that gamers will pay more willingly rather than hoping for deals.

My point is a general observation about people and their different expectations as consumers and producers. It's these expectations that results in companies trying to push profit margins as much as they can, and consumers trying to get everything as cheap as they can. There's nothing particular about that to the practice of MTs in games, and I argue that there's no difference in consumer behaviour between gamers (or rather consumers with games as a hobby) and consumers of other products or services.

 

[BRiT]

Bungie admits it made "mistakes" locking off bits of Destiny 2 behind DLC
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...stakes-locking-off-in-game-content-behind-dlc

Most importantly, the Prestige raid will drop back down to Power level 300 - so you no longer require Curse of Osiris to access it, get the achievement/trophy, or complete the Legend of Acrius exotic questline.

But the Prestige Nightfall will stay locked behind the Curse of Osiris DLC, and its attached achievement/trophy will now only unlock via the Prestige raid, rather than through either.

They admit mistake, fixes mistakes, and then tries to move on.

 

[CSI PC]

I cannot believe I am saying this but all of the recent news on this subject is starting to make Ubisoft look like one of the good guys for gamers, I wonder how Assassin's Creed Origins would had looked under EA or even if it would had been allowed through to full development.
I appreciate it has some recurring revenue but compared to these in the news/discussed it does seem at least reasonably balanced although still not reported if it influences end game.

 

[Malo]

Assassin's Creed is a single player game with a sales record from past titles. Bit of a different beast than these online multiplayer games.

 

[CSI PC]

Assassin's Creed is a single player game with a sales record from past titles. Bit of a different beast than these online multiplayer games.

Yes but look to the rumours and EAs perspective on single player games, or how other games look to still integrate recurring cost mechanics into single player games.
This is not just an issue for 'MMO' type games such as Battlefront 2, Shadows of War as an example has integrated the mechanic into Orcs and is a big headache end game while also lessening the immersion and appreciation of unique Orcs compared to previous game.
Then you also have the case where WB wanted to charge $5 DLC for a character in honour of a senior dev (Michael Forgey) who died and it was only guaranteed the money would go to the charity for sales in some states, WB possibly also benefitted from tax breaks with the association to charity.
It took backlash for them to finally make it free, which it should had been in the first place as they said it was to honour Michael Forgey.

So this discussion and context does have a place with both single player campaigns and single player games.

 

[BadTB25]

Most importantly, the Prestige raid will drop back down to Power level 300 - so you no longer require Curse of Osiris to access it, get the achievement/trophy, or complete the Legend of Acrius exotic questline.

But the Prestige Nightfall will stay locked behind the Curse of Osiris DLC, and its attached achievement/trophy will now only unlock via the Prestige raid, rather than through either.

They admit mistake, fixes mistakes, and then tries to move on.

I agree.

I can't help but think that there is some resistance/stubbornness to retain the crap in there to force people to get their dlc. If the base game and the added dlc is good enough, consumer will have the incentive to buy the dlc.

Instead Bungie seems to be hell bent on the anti-consumer route of limiting leveling, weapons, gears and activities from the base game to force you into it. There "fix" to the prestige Raid now effectively ensure that you get drops "below" your power level if you are a 300+ Guardian-----what a cluster f*ck!

 

[BRiT]

Why didnt they simply have 2 levels of Prestige Raids? They proved that they could, one before the DLC and one after the DLC so why not make it a choice just like all the other events had choices? What a cluster fuck bungle Bungie has turned into. Sad.

 

[BadTB25]

Why didnt they simply have 2 levels of Prestige Raids? They proved that they could, one before the DLC and one after the DLC so why not make it a choice just like all the other events had choices? What a cluster fuck bungle Bungie has turned into. Sad.

Yea, they said they are looking to adding another different Prestige level, but then what happens when you release the next dlc and raise the levels again? Do you know lock off the previous consumers of the 1st dlc?

Maybe these companies should create a position of a consumer advocate that's sole purpose is to look at MT/dlc from the perspective of the gamers. Part of the job description would be to see how all planned updates effect the base game consumer.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why aren't they doing exactly what they did with Destiny 1? Destiny had a crazy fan-base that played it for years and years and it made truck loads of money, right? So that was a winning formula.

 

[BRiT]

Maybe they should look to doing it more like how Borderlands handles it by being able to scale it all from normal mode to vault hunter mode to true vault hunter mode, etc... They scale from level 35 max to 50 max to 60 to 70 max. Who cares if the co-op level of characters are overpowered, let the players have fun. Doesnt Bungie normalize everyone in Crucible MP anyways?

 

[Malo]

Why aren't they doing exactly what they did with Destiny 1? Destiny had a crazy fan-base that played it for years and years and it made truck loads of money, right? So that was a winning formula.

Didn't they lockout the raids with the DLC and a lot more in D1?

I wonder if the issue wouldn't have been as prevalent without the recent hotspot on them regarding the xp fiasco.

 

[CSI PC]

Maybe they should look to doing it more like how Borderlands handles it by being able to scale it all from normal mode to vault hunter mode to true vault hunter mode, etc... They scale from level 35 max to 50 max to 60 to 70 max. Who cares if the co-op level of characters are overpowered, let the players have fun. Doesnt Bungie normalize everyone in Crucible MP anyways?

Funny enough I was thinking the same, Borderlands 2 IMO showed how to do it well with DLC and escalating char level and map difficulty at an "epic" level ending with such as Digistruct Peak Challenge and Overpower.

 

[CSI PC]

LOL someone has a sense of humour on Steam store, game showing up:

I Can't Believe It's Not Gambling (product link).

ABOUT THIS GAME
I Can't Believe It's Not Gambling skips the boring gameplay part of your game and takes you straight to what you really care about: Opening lootboxes!

Experience the thrill of never getting the thing you really want while getting duplicate loot of the thing you don't really care about!

Features include:

• Complete Loot System! Set of trash, common, uncommon, rare, epic, and legendary loot boxes and loot! 6 full tiers of loot boxes in development, with more on the way! Usually we just change the tint!
  
  
• Massive Collection System! Collect them All! We'll constantly remind you of the fact that your collections are incomplete. Don't worry, you can solve that with more purchases!
  
  
• Customize it! Loot boxes contain boxes, skins and hats. Boxes unlock... moar boxes! Get hats for your Customized Loot Box Loadout!

Edit:
Sorry for the icon but keeps changing the URL to Media.

 

[BRiT]

PSA: To get it to stop embedding the url, you can do so by using the following format:

[URL=url]Descriptive Text[/url]

 

[BRiT]

Has this video about the Untold History of EA's LootBoxes been linked into this thread yet?

 

[CSI PC]

PSA: To get it to stop embedding the url, you can do so by using the following format:

[URL=url]Descriptive Text[/url]

Cheers, I think I must had missed 'URL=url' when I tried it doh.
Surprised the Link icon-button does not work that way, tried that as well.