Microsoft purchases Lionhead Studios

[StefanS]

I think I read a little snippet of an interview with Molyneux where he said that EA forced Bullfrog to grow very quickly, and they weren't ready for that. Then he said that MS was happy with their current size, so he didn't see that being an issue. And based on what I've seen from MS, they're quite willing to throw 50+ people at a project from their side, so Molyneux's comment makes sense.

I guess MS was making stuff with Lionhead and that stuff would have been jeopardized by getting purchased by another company, hence the buyout. All the people up in arms about MS rolling over the industry need to get some perspective. MS has a pretty strong track record of working with gaming companies without taking them over.

I guessed that Molyneux would be more happy with the MS deal than with the EA buyout. After reading what happened at Origin after the EA take-over I can only imagine what happened at Bullfrog. They went from a consistent AA+ developer to rotten tomatoes developer within a few months. I exspect that MS will be a lot more supportive and subtle when trying to integrate their new acquisition.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Can you provide some examples of games from different periods? Last I remember of Bullfrog was ThemePark. Then there was Theme Hospital, but I don't know if that was under the EA buyout. Can't remember where Magic Carpet came into all this either. Latterly there was B&W, but between Theme Park and this I'm not sure what there was. (actually I'm not sure of these particularly!!)

 

[StefanS]

Can you provide some examples of games from different periods? Last I remember of Bullfrog was ThemePark. Then there was Theme Hospital, but I don't know if that was under the EA buyout. Can't remember where Magic Carpet came into all this either. Latterly there was B&W, but between Theme Park and this I'm not sure what there was. (actually I'm not sure of these particularly!!)

Complete List incl. rereleases etc.
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/bullfrog-productions-ltd/developed-by/

# Dungeon Keeper
# Dungeon Keeper + Magic Carpet 2
# Dungeon Keeper 2
# Dungeon Keeper Gold
# Dungeon Keeper: The Deeper Dungeons
# Electronic Arts Top Ten - Blue
# Electronic Arts Top Ten Family Fun Pack
# Electronic Arts Top Ten Pack
# Flood
# Fusion
# Genewars
# Hi-Octane
# Magic Carpet
# Magic Carpet 2: The Netherworlds
# Magic Carpet Plus
# Magic Carpet: Hidden Worlds
# Play the Games Vol. 1
# Populous
# Populous & The Promised Lands
# Populous II: Trials of the Olympian Gods
# Populous: The Beginning
# Populous: The Beginning: Undiscovered Worlds
# Populous: The Final Frontier
# Populous: The Promised Lands
# Powermonger
# Powermonger: World War 1 Edition
# Quake III: Revolution
# The Sim Collection
# Sim Mania 2
# Sim Mania 3
# Sim Theme Park
# SimCity & Populous
# SimCoaster
# Syndicate
# Syndicate Plus
# Syndicate Wars
# Syndicate: American Revolt
# Theme Hospital
# Theme Park
# Tube

EDIT: Mobygames has the list ordered by year

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks for the link. It looks like after EA took over it was sequelitus and no new ideas. If that's all they demanded (which flies against why they started working with Bullfrog in the first place!) I can well understand Peter wanting to move.

 

[pc999]

Many? no there's hasn't been large numbers of people leaving either rare or bungie. I'm not sure where you got that info. Some people left, but that is pretty normal in the game biz.

I dont remember here I saw it, but IIRC about half of the team that make GE/PD is not there anymore (many, I think, are in Free Radical), one of the Bungies funders also left it (and I think that he "bring" a few others with them, and I also think it is him that said a lot of people is unhappy and left, althought I dont now what he think it is many/a lot of people), now there is other ex Bungie guy that made the Giant Bite (with ex CS and HL members too).

Yet I remember that they said that MS took them a lot of freedom so they many (whatever that mean) are unhappy with that and left MS.

 

[Qroach]

I dont remember here I saw it, but IIRC about half of the team that make GE/PD is not there anymore (many, I think, are in Free Radical), one of the Bungies funders also left it (and I think that he "bring" a few others with them, and I also think it is him that said a lot of people is unhappy and left, althought I dont now what he think it is many/a lot of people), now there is other ex Bungie guy that made the Giant Bite (with ex CS and HL members too).

Free radical had like 3 or 4 (might be 5) people that worked on the original N64 perfect dark. They left Rare years before MS came around. One of bungies founders left just after the purchase, that's not really un-common. He got a bunch of cash and went and did his own thing (wideload studios) there might be a few others there that he worked with before, but don't forget when MS purchased bungie they consolidated two offices, and anyone that didn't make the move to seattle was cut loose.

Yeah giant bite was formed by a few ex bungie people, but again do you know how large the team at bungie is right now? This isn't what I'd call a mass exodus sof of the people at giant bite had been with bungie for 6 years. That's a pretty long time to stay with any one company in games (depending on the amount of jobs available in the local area.)
.

Yet I remember that they said that MS took them a lot of freedom so they many (whatever that mean) are unhappy with that and left MS.

No idea where you read that. But people leave to do thier own thing all the time in this industry. Very few if any companies ever retain 100% of the people they started with.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No idea where you read that. But people leave to do thier own thing all the time in this industry. Very few if any companies ever retain 100% of the people they started with.

I too have read somewhere that after spending a lot on Rare, a lot of the 'key workers' left and went back to developing for Cube. Somewhere out there this info is being presented, but i don't know where.

 

[Qroach]

I too have read somewhere that after spending a lot on Rare, a lot of the 'key workers' left and went back to developing for Cube. Somewhere out there this info is being presented, but i don't know where.

I never read any article that stated that. Mostly what I've seen is people talking about free radical and how they thought many people from Rare went over there. Even a few gaming sites that don't research news said the same thing. Still none of the talk on the net amounted to anything close to reality from what I understand.

 

[Titanio]

I never read any article that stated that. Mostly what I've seen is people talking about free radical and how they thought many people from Rare went over there. Even a few gaming sites that don't research news said the same thing. Still none of the talk on the net amounted to anything close to reality from what I understand.

Free Radical was founded by Rare guys, and I've no doubt some others followed them. Although I guess it's arguable what "many" is, of course.

I think probably it is all a little exagerrated though, probably out of the case of a couple of high profile departees like Martin Hollis. Although for some time before and after the MS acquisition there were a lot of bad stories coming out of Rare on the likes of Fatbabies etc. It's hard to gauge how much of a brain-drain there was, without actually being there, I guess. The impact of any departures wouldn't necessarily be a function of the number, either, but who those departees were - no doubt some would be more missed than others, so to speak.

 

[StefanS]

Free Radical was founded by Rare guys, and I've no doubt some others followed them. Although I guess it's arguable what "many" is, of course.

I think probably it is all a little exagerrated though, probably out of the case of a couple of high profile departees like Martin Hollis. Although for some time before and after the MS acquisition there were a lot of bad stories coming out of Rare on the likes of Fatbabies etc. It's hard to gauge how much of a brain-drain there was, without actually being there, I guess. The impact of any departures wouldn't necessarily be a function of the number, either, but who those departees were - no doubt some would be more missed than others, so to speak.

Martin Hollis left Rare quite some time before the Rare-buyout and founded Zoonami. A few Rare employees followed him over time, but not too many. Regardless, there were quite some rumours about the "brain drain" of Rare, but never anything substantial.

 

[pc999]

We should also consider how left Rare/Bungie/... because not everyone can say that his freedom is lower today, I mean only some higher profile guys do have freedom, not everyone.

So those we know that left MS had creative freedom or not?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

One of the reasons for the stories might be because fo the lack of quality products from Rare after the acquisition. After all if the Rare team was still the same, why didn't they release anything worthwhile? And that is a valid question I think. MS felt they were worth >$300 million as a house, but they haven't provide $300 million of products or even contributed much at all to XB (though there's obviously a lot more happening with XB360).

BTW : Just checked the Rare website timeline. Wow, they created PSSST and Atic Atac and Jetpac! I don't think any speccy owner didn't play those games!

 

[fearsomepirate]

Can you provide some examples of games from different periods? Last I remember of Bullfrog was ThemePark. Then there was Theme Hospital, but I don't know if that was under the EA buyout. Can't remember where Magic Carpet came into all this either. Latterly there was B&W, but between Theme Park and this I'm not sure what there was. (actually I'm not sure of these particularly!!)

Thinking about Bullfrog almost brings tears to my eyes. There was a time when I loved PC gaming, and that was when I was playing Bullfrog and Origin titles back in the 90's.

I hate EA.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Thinking about Bullfrog almost brings tears to my eyes. There was a time when I loved PC gaming, and that was when I was playing Bullfrog and Origin titles back in the 90's.

I hate EA.

The problem is that many of the uberpublishers like EA are basically marketing-led. They just want the kudos of owning brands that are well known for popular and innovative games. Then they take those brands and use them for cookie-cutter clone titles or sequels, thus driving away the top flight talent that created the reputation of the brand in the first place.

 

[expletive]

The problem is that many of the uberpublishers like EA are basically marketing-led. They just want the kudos of owning brands that are well known for popular and innovative games. Then they take those brands and use them for cookie-cutter clone titles or sequels, thus driving away the top flight talent that created the reputation of the brand in the first place.

Yep, but being publicly owned is likely the major line these companies cross over that compromises creative freedom.

 

[ImaginaryIndustryInsider]

No idea where you read that. But people leave to do thier own thing all the time in this industry. Very few if any companies ever retain 100% of the people they started with.

There was an infamous thread about Rare/MS on Fat-Babies...the same one that leaked Viva Pinta, but past that, I haven't read any rumors like that for a few years.

 

[pc999]

Yep, but being publicly owned is likely the major line these companies cross over that compromises creative freedom.

That more small time frames hurt a lot, plus they usually like to stay close to the last sucess.