MGS4 the first next gen game ?!!

[London Geezer]

In that case, if Tetris was released on the X360, then its an instant 'next-gen' game.

I think Tetris IS an X360 game... I'm sure i've seen it listed in the launch games.

Why bother improving the standards and come up with new ideas??

Cause developers have competitors too, who will release very good games eventually?

 

[fouad]

Actually, though this is going off topic, that isn't necessarily true. A PC CPU has to run a clunky OS and a wide variety of applications. It needs legacy support and a very developer-friendly design that'll run all the apps coming from a widely varying pool of programming talent. A console CPU is only going to run optimized code that's passed by the hardware companies and so the can forgo the niceties and legacy support and go for outright targetted parformance. As long as a PC CPU has to run old and flakey code (the sort I write!) hardware is going to be constricted from super-turbo performance.

As a comparison, how long did it take for PCs to catch up with NES 2D capabilities? And how's about SNES 2D abilities? AFAIK generally the consoles were better at games because the hardware was targetted at games. There's no reason for this to change. The only real difference with modern PC's versus consoles is PC's by their nature spearheaded 3D graphics, and a large industry of 3D accelerators has cropped up. But consoles can still aim to be custom gaming-monsters in the CPU department whereas PC CPU's will always have the ball-and-chain of legacy support holding back their key performance. If the high vector-streaming capabilities of XeCPU and Cell really do make a big difference, a standard PC isn't going to have a similar CPU functionality for a long time. Unless a standard in vector-processor addons can be developed, there's certainly potential for the consoles to remain ahead in the processing department.

For me PS3 is really almost the end of pc gaming...

in ps1, PCs come up with 3d accelerators.
in ps2, PCs come up with even more powerful 3D accelerators, and while the emotion engine was more powerful than anything offered by PC cpus, it has to do vertex shading; pixel shading, AI, physics...etc, because of the stupid lack of feautures of the graphics synthesiser, mainly decent texture compression and Transform and lighting...so developers like kojima couldnt do more with the CPU...( MGS2 was a revolution in physics, animations and AI at its time, of course, but unfortunately MGS3 wasent...)

But with PS3...its a different story; the CELL is even more poerful than the emotion engine at its time, and the RSX could do anything in graphics...the CELL will only consentrate on AI physics and animations.

BUt unfortunately PCs come up with PHYSICS ACCELERATORS...

But it wont be sufficient for them this time...for a lot of reasons...

 

[rosman]

GR3AW will be

 

[liverkick]

Consoles will always have games that are made specifically for them so that's a big advantage.

I think the question to be answered is how much this advantage is going to be harnessed next gen, compared to the traditional x86 environment of high-end PCs. In the next couple years if developers manage to really tap the specialized abilities of these very divergent console processors, I have to wonder if similar performance will be able to be replicated on the latest PC cpus in the same areas. I dont think there's a clear answer to that at the moment.

 

[Nesh]

CONSOLES>PC


end of story

 

[fulcizombie]

Anyway back on topic: Is MGS4 the first next-gen game?

This is debate like all things, but if all X360/PS3/Rev games before MGS4 brings nothing new to the table but slightly better graphics (which is not really the case as most high-end PC can pretty much match if not out do what is currently *released*), then I for one will agrue 'Yes'!

For example, if say GoW comes out before MGS4 and blows everything away and can not be reproduced on a PC for a while, then 'No'.

O'cause this is my opinion only, thus we'll see what will be out between now and the release of MGS4.

I don't get it.Do you have any idea what kind of hardware(graphic cards,CPUs e.t.c) will be available for diehard pc gamers by the time MGS4 arrives??I imagine that MGS4 will be TECHNICALLY very easy to reproduce on a pc by the time it launches just like GoW will be easy to be ported to PCs by the end of 2006(when GoW is going to launch).

Anyway the MGS series is a declining one in both sales and importance(looks at MGS3) and the impact of the MGS4 trailer is ,unfortunately for MGS fans,much less than the impaxt the MGS2 trailer had in its day.In fact i am certain that the unveiling of games like Halo3 and next gen. GTA will totally eclipse MGS4.

 

[mckmas8808]

Anyway the MGS series is a declining one in both sales and importance(looks at MGS3) and the impact of the MGS4 trailer is ,unfortunately for MGS fans,much less than the impaxt the MGS2 trailer had in its day.In fact i am certain that the unveiling of games like Halo3 and next gen. GTA will totally eclipse MGS4.

Still that doesn't explain why so many people love MGS3 over MGS2.

 

[fulcizombie]

Still that doesn't explain why so many people love MGS3 over MGS2.

Too bad that not even half the people that bought MGS2 have bought MGS3 so the franchise has definately lost much of its importance despite of the praise that it gets from some forum goers.We are talking about a game that, 1 year after its release in the U.S and after many price cuts, on the dominant console still hasn't cracked the 1 million barrier.

The fact is that way less people care about MGS today than they did in 2000.

 

[mckmas8808]

Too bad that not even half the people that bought MGS2 have bought MGS3 so the franchise has definately lost much of its importance despite of the praise that it gets from some forum goers.We are talking about a game that, 1 year after its release in the U.S and after many price cuts, on the dominant console still hasn't cracked the 1 million barrier.

The fact is that way less people care about MGS today than they did in 2000.

Well 950,000+ is not that far away.

 

[Ragemare]

If it uses a the new features of a certain generation of console, then the game is of that console's generation. So people are already playing "next-gen" games. If the the Xbox360 version of Tetris does things that couldn't be done in real time on an older generation console, then it is indeed the "next-gen" version of Tetris.

But it wont be sufficient for them this time...for a lot of reasons...

Your whole post makes no sense what so ever.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Why, of all games, would MGS4 be the "first next gen game"? Just because we saw a pretty realtime demo?
There will be hundreds of other games that will look that good and play just as well, we just haven't seen them, and seen how Kojima likes to take it easy and "get it right", many will be released before MGS4.

Well said.

Anyone who thinkgs MGS4 will be the 'first' next-gen games is a little deluded. It's not coming out until late 2006, more likely 2007. There will be tons of "next-gen" games already out by then.

And since when has MGS offered any revolutions in gameplay? MGS2 was pretty damn weak if you're looking for "next-gen gameplay", you have to go back to MGS1 to see any really cool innovation.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

So anyone got any thoughts into what this 'XXXX' system could be? I was thinking Endorphin but what do i know

The screenshot is from Softimage XSI, a widely used 3D animation package...
www.softimage.com

 

[mckmas8808]

The screenshot is from Softimage XSI, a widely used 3D animation package...
www.softimage.com

Could you tell us more about this Softimage XSI sofware package. Are there any advantages/pros or disadvantages/cons? Could you and the people you know create great things using this package?

 

[mckmas8808]

And since when has MGS offered any revolutions in gameplay? MGS2 was pretty damn weak if you're looking for "next-gen gameplay", you have to go back to MGS1 to see any really cool innovation.

Halo didn't add anything new to gameplay either so what are you saying?

 

[Jov]

I don't get it.Do you have any idea what kind of hardware(graphic cards,CPUs e.t.c) will be available for diehard pc gamers by the time MGS4 arrives??I imagine that MGS4 will be TECHNICALLY very easy to reproduce on a pc by the time it launches just like GoW will be easy to be ported to PCs by the end of 2006(when GoW is going to launch).

There are a few too many assumptions you have there. We can all look at Intel's and AMD's CPU roadmap, and it *might* turn out these future CPUs can cut it in reproducing some of the magic that will be created on the PS3 and/or X360. At this stage no one can be sure of either way.

One thing is certain are that there is no guarantee the games mentioned will be _easily_ ported to a PC. We'll just have to see how it pans out.

Getting OT: If memory serves me right when the PC GTA3 was released many months (or was it 1yr) after the PS2 version, it required a beefy rig to run it and it was still preferred (in general) on the PS2 version as it was smoother framerate wise. You can argue it was a poor port etc... but the fact remains a PC user required something significantly more advanced hardware to enjoy a game which is running on what most people consider much inferior HW at the time.

If you counter this with the topical “PC has the overhead of the OS, etc..â€￾, then what makes you think this same fact that holds the PC back from optimal performance will change in the future? Whatever the advantages and disadvantages of PC over consoles will remain as these are the variables for developers in both platforms will have to deal with.

Anyway the MGS series is a declining one in both sales and importance(looks at MGS3) and the impact of the MGS4 trailer is ,unfortunately for MGS fans,much less than the impaxt the MGS2 trailer had in its day.In fact i am certain that the unveiling of games like Halo3 and next gen. GTA will totally eclipse MGS4.

The popularity of the MGS games is another argument. Does 1 game of the franchise that did not perform as expected automatically spells doom for the series? Anyway that’s your opinion, as there will be many that will be ‘for’ and ‘against’ it.

 

[Jov]

If it uses a the new features of a certain generation of console, then the game is of that console's generation. So people are already playing "next-gen" games. If the the Xbox360 version of Tetris does things that couldn't be done in real time on an older generation console, then it is indeed the "next-gen" version of Tetris.

Isn't that what I've been stating? If games on the X360/PS3/Rev are doing stuff that can't be replicated (to a realistic level, e.g framerates or effects) on existing consoles (and today's PC), then it is considered next-gen.

Instead we have people running around blatantly stating next-gen games are whatever released on the new hardware. The game GUN by Activision must be next-gen as there is a X360 version.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Could you tell us more about this Softimage XSI sofware package. Are there any advantages/pros or disadvantages/cons? Could you and the people you know create great things using this package?

Nothing special there, the 4 big packages (Max, Maya, Lightwave and XSI) are quite close to each other in content creation. XSI has some advantages in non-linear animation mixing and editing, but nothing that'd be considered radical. And most studios tend to have a lot of inhouse developments and extensions for these packages anyway... it's just a tool.

 

[Rodéric]

SoftImage XSI also have an open .xsi format with a FileToolKit available, which might come handy in production, as an intermediate/temporary format until you finalize the game file format.