MGS4 movie

[London Geezer]

No Laa-Yosh you don't seem to understand the mentality of people like me and thousands of others that feel the same. Most of us are not video game artist or programmers. We look at the screen and its what we see is what we get. Most of us at the end of the day come give a darn about pure technical side.

The technical side is fun to read, understand, and discuss but when we play the game its the look, feel, even the soul of the game that we care so so much about. Think about it. Look at what the ICO team is doing with SOTH. Technically it might not be the best ever, but when you look at it move and being played it just takes you breath away.

Yeah maybe the tank doesn't look as great as the KZ version, but what were people crying about before they seen this video? Animation!! Now that we have seen a little something that Hideo has been saying for months now we are finally starting to feel vindicated.

Technically I don't care if KZ doesn't have what they showed at E3. As long as it looks about the same (I would say 90-95%) and feels the same with the animation then SCEE did there job. You are feeling as if the marketing of Sony is what's getting us excited as if we are not actually looking at games here.

I remember when people first seen the KZ video some people here were saying time and time again that the volumetric smoke was not possible. OH! but now we see it is. And it took only COD2 to show that. Now this game has it too so now what? Explain to me why I shouldn't feel that KZ will probably look like what they showed?

And Acert93 at one time I did think that KZ was real-time, but after joining this board I realize that it probably isn't. But I think that their point was to show that it is real as in "That's what you are going to play when the game is released." And more over thats what I care most about.

The problem is that you keep bringing it up each and everytime someone talks about the PS3! Let it rest, let's just wait what the actual game will look like!

Anyway, regarding the video, amazing animation. Probably the best i've seen so far for real time rendering. Many times better than GOW animation will ever look like.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Many times better than GOW animation will ever look like.

You know that this is finetuned mocap which was acted out as a continous take - and not ingame animation, which will probably not be as smooth, do you?

 

[rabidrabbit]

*slaps london-boy*

 

[Acert93]

E3 had intepretations of what they thought could be achieved on PS3. This MGS4 trailer is realtime.

I never claimed it was not realtime.

I'm not sure why this is still an issue really. Watch the damn MGS2 trailer back from 2000 and tell me how better that looked than the game did?

Please go back and reread my concern because you are getting rude and have misunderstood my point. Intentionally maybe?

Short and sweet: Ingame cut scenes have a cinematic "feel" that is not carried over to the actual game. e.g. Many of the animations are scene specific and could not be PLAYER controlled, therefore they do NOT represent the gameplay experience. Therfore comparing gameplay footage to an ingame cut scene is flawed for many reasons. Comparing, for example, GT4 in 3rd person during a race to a GT4 cinema where angles, lighting, backdrops, effects, camera angles and movement, etc... is apples-to-oranges.

I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. Comparing one games cut in engine cinema to another games ingame gameplay (when in engine cinema is available) is really, well, fanatical.

And to repeat, since you missed this: I made no comment about it not being realtime! Its like you want to claim I am saying something I am not.

 

[London Geezer]

You know that this is finetuned mocap which was acted out as a continous take - and not ingame animation, which will probably not be as smooth, do you?

Obviously, but from experience, seeing older MGS games, namely 2 and 3, i'm pretty sure i'll be more than satisfied with the animation. Hell, even MGS2 had better anymation than GOW. But let's not turn this back into a PS3vsX360 thread.

 

[one]

You know that this is finetuned mocap which was acted out as a continous take - and not ingame animation, which will probably not be as smooth, do you?

I was more impressed with Metal Gear Mk-2 (the small robot)

 

[Platon]

Technically I don't care if KZ doesn't have what they showed at E3. As long as it looks about the same (I would say 90-95%) and feels the same with the animation then SCEE did there job. You are feeling as if the marketing of Sony is what's getting us excited as if we are not actually looking at games here.

Well technically we don't. We see trailers that show more or less nothing from gameplay. So far I don't think Sony has shown a single real gameplay sequence...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Can't wait to get back home from work so I can see this trailer.

Is there some similar impressive effect in that trailer like the rain was in MGS2 trailers, that was what everybody was talking. MGS3 had no such standout effect, does the MGS4 trailer show some impressive "physics" or "athmospheric" effects?

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

ANy thoughts on this being endorphine in the wild? If I remember correctly... and I never do... Konami is one of the people listed to be making use of endorphine. I imagine Kojima would jump on endorphine the minute he heard of it. Any thoughts, Laa?

Also, I was really impressed by the animation for the mini-metal gear... not Otacon's but the one walking through the street.

 

[LunchBox]

wow...

i wasn't expecting much...

but wow...

i can sleep a lot better now knowing some people actually knows how to use the machine

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Is there some similar impressive effect in that trailer like the rain was in MGS2 trailers, that was what everybody was talking. MGS3 had no such standout effect, does the MGS4 trailer show some impressive "physics" or "athmospheric" effects?

There's a lot of smoke blowing in the wind. It's probably a few layers of transparent particles but it looks very nice in motion... and there's some bloom and DOF used very well, too.

 

[mckmas8808]

The problem is that you keep bringing it up each and everytime someone talks about the PS3! Let it rest, let's just wait what the actual game will look like!

Anyway, regarding the video, amazing animation. Probably the best i've seen so far for real time rendering. Many times better than GOW animation will ever look like.

I just don't like people telling me that the game won't look as good. As a matter of fact they just said it two or three post up, yet the games keep impressing. I mean london you know from the past MGS games that the gameplay is basically like the storyline parts.

I think some people are forgetting that MGS4 will be played from behind the back rather than what MGS1,2, and 3 were like. I mean you got people here saying this.

but the thing is that it is extremely different how things look in a cut scene and how it looks form a gameplay perspective. I am sure from a gameplay perspective all these close ups on the feet and their striring up sand and dust will not be as dramatic or evem visible at all.

Now why is it that he gets to say that without me telling him that he is obviously wrong. At the beginning of the video it shows the game in first person view. I mean for god sake how much more gameplay like do you want? The twisting sand was visible then right? I mean I saw it. Every single thing looked as dramatic to me. The paper was still flipping around and the lack of loud noise made it really eerie to me.

I just don't see why people still want to bake off of the th!s !s not teh real gamepLaY.

Its in the video!!

 

[London Geezer]

Can't wait to get back home from work so I can see this trailer.

Is there some similar impressive effect in that trailer like the rain was in MGS2 trailers, that was what everybody was talking. MGS3 had no such standout effect, does the MGS4 trailer show some impressive "physics" or "athmospheric" effects?

Well there's not much really, but there are some cool explosions and the lighting is just freaking amazing, great use of shadows and overbright.

 

[rabidrabbit]

From the description I thought the first person view in the beginning was from the eyes of an enemy soldier, so it qualifies more as cutscene than gameplay, unless you play as an enemy soldier at some point.

 

[mistan]

http://xboxattitude.free.fr/videos/mgs4_tgs2005.wmv
Another higher quality more "trailer-like" trailer.
I can see details!!
EDIT: When the "cell-equipped" robot looks up at Snake....*FAINT*
And at the end...the environment look sooooo nice....*Dies*

And I think that Konami is using NaturalMotion next gen animation system for more....shall I say...."Natural Movements" ala "NaturalMotion". Kojima told on himself, I think this guy tells use everything w/o saying it. Whether its in the trailers or in interviews.

 

[rabidrabbit]

What about the different "sides" or "factions" in the battlefield.
Prior the trailer in some interview Kojima said the trailer would make it clear how that system works (you shooting a soldier from some "team" would make that team your enemy, while possibly making thet teams original enemy your ally, or something like that)
Does it show that? Maybe there will be a longer trailer soon that shows more.

 

[blakjedi]

I just don't like people telling me that the game won't look as good. As a matter of fact they just said it two or three post up, yet the games keep impressing. I mean london you know from the past MGS games that the gameplay is basically like the storyline parts.

I think some people are forgetting that MGS4 will be played from behind the back rather than what MGS1,2, and 3 were like. I mean you got people here saying this.



Now why is it that he gets to say that without me telling him that he is obviously wrong. At the beginning of the video it shows the game in first person view. I mean for god sake how much more gameplay like do you want? The twisting sand was visible then right? I mean I saw it. Every single thing looked as dramatic to me. The paper was still flipping around and the lack of loud noise made it really eerie to me.

I just don't see why people still want to bake off of the th!s !s not teh real gamepLaY.

Its in the video!!

unless the game will be played from fps then... your whole argument is wrong here. you know that that scene was a dramatic scene done to "introduce" you to the new snake whos tired of war... nothing about the whole video indicated gameplay. No HUD, no meters, no weapons gauge... thats what folks should be willing to admit. It looks like a fantastic dramatic cutscene though.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

ANy thoughts on this being endorphine in the wild? If I remember correctly... and I never do... Konami is one of the people listed to be making use of endorphine. I imagine Kojima would jump on endorphine the minute he heard of it. Any thoughts, Laa?

The version of Endorphine that I've seen was mostly a highend ragdoll rig that could create transitions from motion capture or keyframe animation. Say, you have someone walking and you want him to suddenly fall down from the edge of a buliding's roof... or get caught in the shockwave of an explosion near him. These things are more about physics than acting, and are pretty hard to mocap (lots of wire rigs required) or time-consuming to animate, so they are easily handled by an app like endorphin. And you still have more control over the results, compared to an ingame simulated ragdoll.

As for Naturalmotion, I dunno. Transitions between different cycles certainly is one of the most obvious problems with today's ingame character animation.

 

[Phil]

Acert93:

I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. Comparing one games cut in engine cinema to another games ingame gameplay (when in engine cinema is available) is really, well, fanatical.

The only fanatical thing about it is you bringing it up in a place it shouldn't be.

And to repeat, since you missed this: I made no comment about it not being realtime! Its like you want to claim I am saying something I am not.

Then I seriously suggest you watch how you imply things, because your sentence We already saw a ton of cinematics at E3, certainly implies you don't seperate any difference between the E3 rendered stuff and this realtime trailer. Obviously the latter is realtime and damn impressive feat considering we've argued countless hours of how much of those pre-rendered stuff from E3 were realisitc benchmarks or not.

I also suggest you go back and play either MGS2 or 3 and check out what difference there is between those cinematic cut-scenes and the gameplay. Certainly not any of the "lighting, backdrops, effects, camera angles and movement" -list sans camera-angles. Will MGS4 be an exception to the rule? Maybe - but at this point, there's no reason to believe otherwise, unless you care to point out why.

But hey, maybe you or Laa-Yosh should enlighten us what will be so different when playing the game? The thing that impresses me about the trailer is the animation, movement and the wind and the detail on the characters as on the surroundings. It looks and feels authentic, real. I'm not talking about the emotions when watching a movie-trailer that gets me excited - I'm talking about visuals here. And in that respect, this is pretty much spot on from what I have come to expect from Kojima after he delievered 3 times already.

 

[pipo]

It looks very expensive, but it's fantastic. Sony does it again.

MS has it's work cut out for CES (or X05) to say the least. They'd better dust off the old Master Chief for some comparable action soon...