MGS4 movie

blakjedi said:
unless the game will be played from fps then... your whole argument is wrong here. you know that that scene was a dramatic scene done to "introduce" you to the new snake whos tired of war... nothing about the whole indicted gameply. no hud no meters, no weapons guage... thats what folks should be willing to admit. it looks like a fantastic dramatic cutscene though.
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Got dag it!!:mad: You guys don't understand. What I'm saying is why would the twisting sand and flying paper and great lighting just wisssh up and go away when the real game starts. Some people here are acting like those effects will just fly out into thin air.

I mean why would Hideo say what he said about natural movement and a natural environment, show it in a trailer, then just to BAM remove it in real gameplay. Some of you here just need a bigger vision. Not trying to joke or anything, but think beyond what you can only see.

Why can't you see that the gameplay will resemble what we seen in the fps view, just in third person?
 
Phil said:
Acert93:



The only fanatical thing about it is you bringing it up in a place it shouldn't be.



Then I seriously suggest you watch how you imply things, because your sentence We already saw a ton of cinematics at E3, certainly implies you don't seperate any difference between the E3 rendered stuff and this realtime trailer. Obviously the latter is realtime and damn impressive feat considering we've argued countless hours of how much of those pre-rendered stuff from E3 were realisitc benchmarks or not.

I also suggest you go back and play either MGS2 or 3 and check out what difference there is between those cinematic cut-scenes and the gameplay. Certainly not any of the "lighting, backdrops, effects, camera angles and movement" -list sans camera-angles. Will MGS4 be an exception to the rule? Maybe - but at this point, there's no reason to believe otherwise, unless you care to point out why.

But hey, maybe you or Laa-Yosh should enlighten us what will be so different when playing the game? The thing that impresses me about the trailer is the animation, movement and the wind and the detail on the characters. I'm not talking about the emotions when watching a movie-trailer that gets me excited - I'm talking about visuals here. And in that respect, this is pretty much spot on from what I have come to expect from Kojima after he delievered 3 times already.
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the video may be realtime but it wasnt gameplay and theres ALWAYS difference with cutscenes and gameplay.
 
Pretty much the biggest difference between cinematics and in-game gameplay is camera direction and animation. Direction is vitally important, which is top notch Hollywood directors make tons of $$$. Moreover, the in-game models in cinematic scenes use motion captured actors, instead of pre-canned moves.

None of this will be solved until

a) human motion is the result of the realtime synthesis instead offline capture
and
b) the human actors in the game can be given a branching script, to which they generally adhere, but also improv.

Given how hard it's been for AI researchers to make robots walk, run, and play realistically, many more years of research will need to be done. (yes, I know about the passive-dynamic walkers. But try making an algorithm that computes what a stylistic and devasting round-house kick should look like)
 
I do believe MGS4 gameplay will indeed look like the first person views in the trailer, just that in those first person views there wasn't much gameplay :)
 
Phil said:
I also suggest you go back and play either MGS2 or 3 and check out what difference there is between those cinematic cut-scenes and the gameplay. Certainly not any of the "lighting, backdrops, effects, camera angles and movement" -list sans camera-angles. Will MGS4 be an exception to the rule? Maybe - but at this point, there's no reason to believe otherwise, unless you care to point out why.

But hey, maybe you or Laa-Yosh should enlighten us what will be so different when playing the game? The thing that impresses me about the trailer is the animation, movement and the wind and the detail on the characters as on the surroundings. It looks and feels authentic, real.
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Hey Phil I'm fighting with you too man. I feel 100% exactly like you. I don't know why MGS4 will be the exception to the rule either.
 
mistan said:
http://xboxattitude.free.fr/videos/mgs4_tgs2005.wmv
Another higher quality more "trailer-like" trailer.
I can see details!!
EDIT: When the "cell-equipped" robot looks up at Snake....*FAINT*
And at the end...the environment look sooooo nice....*Dies*

And I think that Konami is using NaturalMotion next gen animation system for more....shall I say...."Natural Movements" ala "NaturalMotion". Kojima told on himself, I think this guy tells use everything w/o saying it. Whether its in the trailers or in interviews.
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Wow it's another edition, a movie with digests at the beginning, and clearer!!!
*Added it to the 1st post*
 
blakjedi;

Fine, tell me what's different then? And don't bring any other games of other genres into the equation while you're at it - bring on some of the things from lets say MGS2 or 3 that were different. That'd be much better than posting a one-liner to my longer reply...
 
mckmas8808 said:
Got dag it!!:mad: You guys don't understand. What I'm saying is why would the twisting sand and flying paper and great lighting just wisssh up and go away when the real game starts. Some people here are acting like those effects will just fly out into thin air.

I mean why would Hideo say what he said about natural movement and a natural environment, show it in a trailer, then just to BAM remove it in real gameplay. Some of you here just need a bigger vision. Not trying to joke or anything, but think beyond what you can only see.

Why can't you see that the gameplay will resemble what we seen in the fps view, just in third person?
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I am not saying that those effects will be gone or anything because they will not, I can only say that seeing the MGS2 trailer and then playing the damn thing was a totaly different experience. The stupid camera angles, you couldn't see enemies that were a few feet ahead of you, you couldn't control the camera and you couldn't move while in first person and those stupid exclamation marks over the enemies, none of that was shown in the trailer and made me extremely dissapointed in the game so this time around I am just so much more cautious. After what Kojima saiud I was expecting to see some actual GAMEPLAY but none was shown, am I wrong???...
 
One kind of ingame cinematic is created with scripting only, when it plays mostly ingame animations and controls the camera from some text-based data. You know, character runs, stops, starts talking, etc. There may be some custom animations as well, that are blended to and from using the game's animation engine. The scene might be created by typing in timings for the animations and camera position coordinates and so on.
New engines can offer more sophisticated graphical editors though. A notable example is HL2 and the Source engine, although there's no controll over the camera there.

The other kind uses custom animations for everything and is usually built in a 3D animation package like Max or Maya. Every detail can be tweaked like camera angles and lenses, animations, maybe even the particle effects as well, so it's quite similar to how a prerendered cinematic is created. Then all the data is converted to the game engine's custom formats.
The difference from the first method is that all the animation, from vehicles through cameras to characters, is put together and tweaked manually, so any problems can be ironed out. This is why KZ was decieving and could not be representative of actualy gameplay, for example.

AFAIK UE3 has a builtin editor for cinematics as well but I don't know if it uses the game engine to blend between animations, or if it uses animation created in a 3D package.


As for MGS4, the game will certainly be different from this trailer as well. However, Kojima and his team should have more than a year to research and develop a new animation engine, so the quality should be better than their previous games. We'll see... until that, this is only what it was meant to be, a teaser trailer for an upcoming game.
 
DemoCoder said:
Pretty much the biggest difference between cinematics and in-game gameplay is camera direction and animation. Direction is vitally important, which is top notch Hollywood directors make tons of $$$.
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I was wondering why Kojima hasn't tried to break into the movie industry, he seems to have some talent. But then I've realised that he can be the Lucas or Spielberg of another industry, so why should he bother? :)
 
Laa-Yosh said:
However, Kojima and his team should have more than a year to research and develop a new animation engine, so the quality should be better than their previous games.
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Konami, like SCEE and SCEA, is a licensee and presumably utilizes Endorphin2.x.
 
Platon said:
I am not saying that those effects will be gone or anything because they will not, I can only say that seeing the MGS2 trailer and then playing the damn thing was a totaly different experience. The stupid camera angles, you couldn't see enemies that were a few feet ahead of you, you couldn't control the camera and you couldn't move while in first person and those stupid exclamation marks over the enemies, none of that was shown in the trailer and made me extremely dissapointed in the game so this time around I am just so much more cautious. After what Kojima saiud I was expecting to see some actual GAMEPLAY but none was shown, am I wrong???...
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Not to defend him, but the guy is talking about graphics, how they will look very similar from cutscene to gameplay, and you come up with how you were all disappointed with the gameplay when u played MGS2?? Doesn't make much sense.
Anyone who played MGS2 from the beginning and saw that bridge intro for the first time is bound to have been WOWed at the time, and it was all realtime. That's what the kid is saying, the graphics from that bridge cutscene (and all other realtime cutscenes in MGS2) had the same graphical quality as the gameplay. Obviously cutscenes have strange camera angles and "proper" direction. They wouldn't be cutscenes otherwise.
 
Vince said:
Konami, like SCEE and SCEA, is a licensee and presumably utilizes Endorphin2.x.
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Endorphin is an external app to create animations, it wouldn't help them with their animation engine. Maybe you've meant Naturalmotion?
 
Laa-Yosh said:
I was wondering why Kojima hasn't tried to break into the movie industry, he seems to have some talent. But then I've realised that he can be the Lucas or Spielberg of another industry, so why should he bother? :)
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Have you played MGS2? Now try to imagine that sort of story in a movie. Even 13 Ghosts would have a more coherent story, and that must be the worst movie i've ever seen in my life. :LOL:
 
Laa-Yosh said:
Endorphin is an external app to create animations, it wouldn't help them with their animation engine. Maybe you've meant Naturalmotion?
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I assumed Endorphin was the technology and Natural Motion was the company founded by the Cambridge guys. I could very well be wrong, but egardless of what it's called my point gets across.

I do wonder why SCE doesn't buy them out.
 
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london-boy said:
Not to defend him, but the guy is talking about graphics, how they will look very similar from cutscene to gameplay, and you come up with how you were all disappointed with the gameplay when u played MGS2?? Doesn't make much sense.
Anyone who played MGS2 from the beginning and saw that bridge intro for the first time is bound to have been WOWed at the time, and it was all realtime. That's what the kid is saying, the graphics from that bridge cutscene (and all other realtime cutscenes in MGS2) had the same graphical quality as the gameplay. Obviously cutscenes have strange camera angles and "proper" direction. They wouldn't be cutscenes otherwise.
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I made it quite clear that in one of my previous post that I belaive this is realtime and that the graphics that are shown are the real thing and that this is how things will look and maybe even better. What I am debatting is the gameplay of this thing, not the graphics. I just want to point out that the feel of the game can be much different that a trailer. Extrapolating the feel of a trailer into the game just does not work, especially when you have to fight against the camera and stuff...
 
Vince said:
I assumed Endorphin was the technology and Natural Motion was the company founded by the Cambridge guys. I could be wrong.
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D'oh, you're right. The company has another product though, that's meant to be a middleware, but apparently it has no name yet. Nevertheless, Endorphin is a standalone app that can export animation clips, so it's only another tool in creating 'canned' animations.
 
london-boy said:
Have you played MGS2? Now try to imagine that sort of story in a movie. Even 13 Ghosts would have a more coherent story, and that must be the worst movie i've ever seen in my life. :LOL:
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Well he can direct well, so just don't let him at the script :)
 
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